#8 shot vs. 3/4" plywood

ctdonath · October 14, 2000, 05:03 PM

FWIW:

I've read much about shotgun loads, overpenetration, and dissipation. Finally dragged out some plywood and evaluated it for myself. (Ok, this is hardly scientific.)

Propped up some 3/4" plywood in the back yard and fired #8 shot at it using a 14" barrel (Mossberg 590 AOW) from 1 to 10 yards. Shot size was chosen for presumably rapid energy loss, in consideration of short-range defensive use (i.e.: home defense, with a particular concern about over-penetration).

Shot spread was roughly 1" for each yard of distance.

From 1 to 4 yards, a nice big hole was blown clean through the 3/4" plywood.

At 5 yards, the wad got stuck in the plywood.

At 6 yards, the wad bounced off the plywood, and the shot penetrated 1/8"-1/4".

Dave McC · October 15, 2000, 07:27 AM

Thanks, Carl. Any choke in that shorty?

ctdonath · October 15, 2000, 08:45 AM

No choke.

BTW: At 10 yards, 00 buck went clean through.

Dave R · October 17, 2000, 12:42 PM

This seems to agree with the proponent of bird shot for home defense. At "room" distances, the bird shot will penetrate the perp, but not go through walls and pose a danger to others.

That's what you want, isn't it?

Buckshot seems to me to be a danger of overpenetration in home defense.

nedfig · October 17, 2000, 01:09 PM

Would the 3/4" plywood have the same "characteristics" of a bad guy's body? Or, would those results apply to a bad guy's body?

M1911 · October 17, 2000, 03:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave R:
This seems to agree with the proponent of bird shot for home defense. At "room" distances, the bird shot will penetrate the perp, but not go through walls and pose a danger to others.[/quote]

Hold on there. Interior walls are made of wallboard, not plywood.

M1911

ljlcdl · October 17, 2000, 04:02 PM

At 6 yds, your data indicates the rib cage would stop quite a bit of #8. Hmmmm.

ljlc

ctdonath · October 18, 2000, 09:57 AM

I had neither plasterboard nor perps to test it on. As I said, hardly scientific. What it did demonstrate was #8 shot provides immense up-close power (at 4 yards, blew a ~4" hole in 3/4" plywood!), and yet that power rapidly dissipated (barely penetrated beyond 5 yards, vs. total penetration from 20 yards with 00 buck and slugs). I figured that at minimum, if it makes a big hole in thick plywood, it will make a suitably big hole in a perp.

I'll dig up some plasterboard for a better wall test.

As for >6 yards, most in-home defense cases would not exceed 5 yards. If a case does, the birdshot may not penetrate much, but it will cover a wide area (>1" spread for each yard of distance) and make a heck of a painful mess.

Consider also that projectiles are stopped faster by two thin separated barriers than by one thicker barrier. Across a room, the shot may penetrate one sheet of plasterboard, but likely won't go through a second. Guess I'll have to buy a couple sheets this weekend.

Bruegger · October 18, 2000, 10:40 AM

"I had neither plasterboard nor perps to test it on...."

How about wet phonebooks (the poor man's ballistic gelatin)?

ljlcdl · October 18, 2000, 04:39 PM

I hope to do little testing too. Maybe check out slightly larger shot and see what happens out to about 10yds or so.

Most people don't consider the protective effect of ribs but ribs cover a large area of the thorax (chest) and are very, very tough. Over the last 15 years or so I have seen literally dozens of cases of people hit with shotgun blasts with little chest penetration. For a variety of reasons I don't ask the details like distance, gauge, etc. but I suspect most of these are not within 10 yds.

ljlc

PEA SHOOTER · October 18, 2000, 09:54 PM

35grns bluedot 1/1/4 #6's will do the trick

[This message has been edited by PEA SHOOTER (edited October 19, 2000).]

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October 14, 2000, 05:03 PM	#1
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	FWIW: I've read much about shotgun loads, overpenetration, and dissipation. Finally dragged out some plywood and evaluated it for myself. (Ok, this is hardly scientific.) Propped up some 3/4" plywood in the back yard and fired #8 shot at it using a 14" barrel (Mossberg 590 AOW) from 1 to 10 yards. Shot size was chosen for presumably rapid energy loss, in consideration of short-range defensive use (i.e.: home defense, with a particular concern about over-penetration). Shot spread was roughly 1" for each yard of distance. From 1 to 4 yards, a nice big hole was blown clean through the 3/4" plywood. At 5 yards, the wad got stuck in the plywood. At 6 yards, the wad bounced off the plywood, and the shot penetrated 1/8"-1/4".

October 15, 2000, 07:27 AM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, Carl. Any choke in that shorty?

October 15, 2000, 08:45 AM	#3
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	No choke. BTW: At 10 yards, 00 buck went clean through.

October 17, 2000, 12:42 PM	#4
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	This seems to agree with the proponent of bird shot for home defense. At "room" distances, the bird shot will penetrate the perp, but not go through walls and pose a danger to others. That's what you want, isn't it? Buckshot seems to me to be a danger of overpenetration in home defense.

October 17, 2000, 01:09 PM	#5
nedfig Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 263	Would the 3/4" plywood have the same "characteristics" of a bad guy's body? Or, would those results apply to a bad guy's body?

October 17, 2000, 03:36 PM	#6
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave R: This seems to agree with the proponent of bird shot for home defense. At "room" distances, the bird shot will penetrate the perp, but not go through walls and pose a danger to others.[/quote] Hold on there. Interior walls are made of wallboard, not plywood. M1911

October 17, 2000, 04:02 PM	#7
ljlcdl Member Join Date: July 9, 2000 Posts: 80	At 6 yds, your data indicates the rib cage would stop quite a bit of #8. Hmmmm. ljlc

October 18, 2000, 09:57 AM	#8
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	I had neither plasterboard nor perps to test it on. As I said, hardly scientific. What it did demonstrate was #8 shot provides immense up-close power (at 4 yards, blew a ~4" hole in 3/4" plywood!), and yet that power rapidly dissipated (barely penetrated beyond 5 yards, vs. total penetration from 20 yards with 00 buck and slugs). I figured that at minimum, if it makes a big hole in thick plywood, it will make a suitably big hole in a perp. I'll dig up some plasterboard for a better wall test. As for >6 yards, most in-home defense cases would not exceed 5 yards. If a case does, the birdshot may not penetrate much, but it will cover a wide area (>1" spread for each yard of distance) and make a heck of a painful mess. Consider also that projectiles are stopped faster by two thin separated barriers than by one thicker barrier. Across a room, the shot may penetrate one sheet of plasterboard, but likely won't go through a second. Guess I'll have to buy a couple sheets this weekend.

October 18, 2000, 10:40 AM	#9
Bruegger Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 637	"I had neither plasterboard nor perps to test it on...." How about wet phonebooks (the poor man's ballistic gelatin)?

October 18, 2000, 04:39 PM	#10
ljlcdl Member Join Date: July 9, 2000 Posts: 80	I hope to do little testing too. Maybe check out slightly larger shot and see what happens out to about 10yds or so. Most people don't consider the protective effect of ribs but ribs cover a large area of the thorax (chest) and are very, very tough. Over the last 15 years or so I have seen literally dozens of cases of people hit with shotgun blasts with little chest penetration. For a variety of reasons I don't ask the details like distance, gauge, etc. but I suspect most of these are not within 10 yds. ljlc

October 18, 2000, 09:54 PM	#11
PEA SHOOTER Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Posts: 76	35grns bluedot 1/1/4 #6's will do the trick [This message has been edited by PEA SHOOTER (edited October 19, 2000).]