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Old December 6, 2019, 12:49 PM   #26
TunnelRat
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Wouldn't the manual of arms of a P238 be cocked and locked?

I watched a guy go through a 2 day reflexive shooting course with a P238. He did very well and other than needing a butt load of magazines to keep up with people using service pistols he kept right up there.

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Old December 6, 2019, 02:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
I really liked the P238, but just didn’t like the idea of having two options - carry with a live round under the hammer or carrying cocked and locked. I could be Ok with the live round under the hammer, since I think there’s a hammer block, but then I’d have to thumb back that little hammer in a stressful situation if I had to use it. Sweaty thumb and small hammer spur.
That is twice that you mentioned liking the P238. I carry one once or twice a week for the last three years as a pocket pistol. Never found the safety off. Mind you, I use a pocket holster that covers both trigger and thumb safety. I consider it completely safe, though. If you aren't comfortable with it, so be it, but I hate to see you ditch a pistol you like under a mistaken impression that it is unsafe to carry in its intended state. The safety clicks on and off quite decisively.
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Old December 6, 2019, 08:08 PM   #28
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Kel Tec P3-AT

I have the Kel Tec P3-AT and when I need small pocket carry, it goes into a pocket holster in my right front pocket. Can't hardly tell it is there. It's mostly an up-close and personal kind of gun but at five yards I can get acceptable groups. It's really small. I put an after market wrap on type grip and I think that helps a bit.

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Old December 7, 2019, 07:46 AM   #29
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Sw bodyguard 380. Good lil gun
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Old December 7, 2019, 11:53 AM   #30
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You can get the dimensions and weight of many pocket pistols and visually compare them at http://www.mouseguns.com/pocketautocomparison.pdf (last revised in 2011).

I have the Sig P238, Ruger LCP, and the Bersa Thunder in .380 and the Kahr CM9 in 9mm. I agree with others that the Bersa is not really a pocket pistol. I shoot the Sig P238 much better than the LCP and it is only about five ounces heavier and about a third of an inch longer and higher. I carry the Sig cocked and locked in a pocket holster covering the trigger. The only time I prefer the Ruger is when I'm wearing shorts in the summer with no belt --- that's when I can tell the difference in weight.

I often pocket carry the Kahr CM9 in anything other than lighter-weight shorts in the summer. Good trigger and extra power. Something to think about.
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Old December 7, 2019, 12:22 PM   #31
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Kel-Tec P3at, Ruger LCP, Taurus Spectrum.
With the LCP you have a true DAO action with a fairly long trigger pull. Think double action revolver. The LCP II has a pre-cocked hammer with less trigger pull, and only the trigger dongle as a safety. The P3at Kel-Tec operates the same as the original LCP.
The Taurus Spectrum is different in that it has a non-pre cocked, true double action only striker instead of a hammer.
In comparison for pocket carry, the Bersa is a Mack truck in size.
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Old December 7, 2019, 12:36 PM   #32
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One absolutely under-rated .380 is the Remington RM380, very comfortable to shoot, mine is super reliable and eats everything I feed it, unlike my daughters S&W Bodyguard which is ammo picky or the Taurus TCP she had which was a total pile of crap that didn't survive its first range session and took Taurus 16 weeks to "repair".
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Old December 7, 2019, 01:46 PM   #33
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After hearing from you guys, and a lot of internet research, it seems that the Ruger LCP II, the Kahr CW380, and the Taurus 738 TCP are the ones I most want to handle.
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Old December 7, 2019, 01:58 PM   #34
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Glock 42. Best .380 I've ever shot.
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Old December 7, 2019, 03:31 PM   #35
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I bought a used Tuarus TCP a few months ago for $75 with the box and all the paperwork. The seller said he had trouble racking the slide. Its not the slide tension as much as the slide is slick and the gripping grooves are small. But once you try it you figure it out pretty quick.

Its the only 380 I own and the first time I have bought factory ammo except 22 in decades and I was shocked at the cost. But I have over 300 rounds now and have as much in ammo as I have in the gun. But the gun has been 100% and shoots good. At close range.

I haven't tried any other 380s as I really don't care that much for the round. But it has its place and in this little pocket pistol its about perfect. I doubt I will ever buy another 380 but I am glad I have this one. It does every thing I want a pocket auto to do.
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Old December 7, 2019, 05:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
I like that the Bersa has a safety

The Ruger is small and DA only, but how is the trigger?
The LCP II is not DAO. It is SAO with a trigger safety. The hammer is fully cocked.
The LCP Gen 1, 2, and custom are DAO with the hammer only partly pre cocked a small amount.
For a pocket "belly gun" the quality of the trigger is pretty much meaningless. You're not shooting target matches with a 380 mouse gun. It's a point, and shoot, close range self defense pistol.
Also how recoil sensitive are you? Many complain about the snappy recoil of the tiny 380 pocket pistols.
I am getting the impression with your talk of safeties, DA/SA, decockers, and trigger feel that any mouse gun may not be to your liking. Or may take some serious range time to get used to.
Seven yards, big targets, and love s f shooting. Not 25 yard "target" practice.
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Old December 7, 2019, 05:46 PM   #37
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Yup, I mistyped on the Ruger. As for trigger quality, I can’t agree that it doesn’t matter. Regarding safety, I am a belt and suspenders guy, so the more safety options the better. I like what the Bersa Thunder offers, except for the size. The wife has a S&W 380 EZ, and I really like it, but it’s too big for what I want. Just ran about 50 rounds through it. And about 50 through my 357. Not recoil sensitive particularly.

I really like the 380 EZ, so maybe I’d better have a closer look at the S&W Bodyguard.
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Old December 7, 2019, 09:31 PM   #38
wild cat mccane
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People are recommending the Seecamp.

Perhaps they don't know the company has totally fallen apart in making functioning firearms after it was sold several years ago?
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Old December 7, 2019, 10:56 PM   #39
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Fallen apart? I ordered some parts from them last year for an older seecamp without any problems. The guns are easy to work on.
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Old December 7, 2019, 11:13 PM   #40
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Keltec

P3AT Small/Lightweight belly gun. (If you're belly to belly it's great).

RayC
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Old December 8, 2019, 01:22 AM   #41
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https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...t=kimber+micro

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...t=kimber+micro
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Old December 8, 2019, 05:12 AM   #42
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The Kel-Tec P3AT, Beretta Pico, and various incarnations of the Ruger LCP are tiny pocket pistols.

The Bersa is more like a Walther PP and is basically a small service pistol designed to be carried in a belt holster.

I own or have owned the P3AT, Pico, regular LCP, and LCPII.

I prefer the LCPII due to the nice trigger and decent sights, but all of them are/were reliable and very small/light.

I can and do carry one in the breast pocket of a baggy flannel shirt.
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Old December 8, 2019, 08:55 AM   #43
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My first pocket carry was an NAA Guardian in .32. Then I carried a Colt Pony Pocketlite .380 for a long time before the Pico came out. I carried the Pico for a couple of years. The ergonomics are OK when it's loaded, but the slide is a bear when not loaded, and the magazine release is in that weird under-trigger guard position. Now I rotate between the LCP Custom, KelTec P3AT, and a KelTec P32 when I need something to truly disappear in my pocket. The P32 also is the only one that works if I want to keep a pistol in the inner pocket of my sports jacket.
One thing about the LCP Custom, it works best if you have an 11 or 12 pound recoil spring.
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Old December 8, 2019, 11:52 AM   #44
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I have both the Taurus TCP and a Spectrum. The Spectrum looks and feels better and is slightly lighter. I prefer the Spectrum (either is fine).
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Old December 8, 2019, 12:51 PM   #45
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I carry the Pico because it has the features I like in a small pocket pistol; thin, lightweight, reliable, DAO trigger and quality made. I really like the fact that one can change frames to add an integral laser or light. I've had mine now for three years with zero problems. Good sights too.
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Old December 8, 2019, 01:14 PM   #46
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CDR Glock

Great minds......
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Old December 8, 2019, 03:16 PM   #47
603Country
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After handling some mouse guns, and working the slides and triggers, I bought the S&W Bodyguard in 380. Not saying it’s the absolute best, but it’s close in operation to my 380 EZ. It has a safety and I have enough of a comfort factor to handle and use it.

Thank you all for your suggestions and knowledge.
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Old December 8, 2019, 07:21 PM   #48
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Congrats on your new 380! I was going to toss out there another vote for Kahr CT380 as I have 2 of them had a couple FTE on one at 50 round mark but now after 300+ rounds each flawless! I have heard a lot of good things about the Bodyguard and I shot the 380EZ a month ago and it was very impressive!
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Old December 8, 2019, 09:36 PM   #49
wild cat mccane
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If you go to the Seecamp Company Forum, there isn't a single positive thread about the current LWS380 on the entire front page. Looky yourself:

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...?board=lws_380

It's not just Milford vs Southwick (former vs current owner).

These weren't popular enough to have high volume, year long backlogs to order. Knowing this, there always seemed to be reliability threads whenever the name popped up. At a million tons in weight, I wouldn't recommend it to someone. Shrug

Last edited by wild cat mccane; December 9, 2019 at 09:46 AM.
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Old December 9, 2019, 07:35 PM   #50
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I have a Ruger LCP ‘Custom’ and while the trigger is not great, I works well for its intended purpose.
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