New to BP. Question regarding legality

BigFish · June 7, 2017, 11:26 PM

I live in Michigan, and I have a felony from 17 years ago. I recently had my state rights restored, which allows me to own/possess muzzleloader, black powder, and high velocity BB. I also found on the ATF website where it states (paraphrasing) BP is not considered a firearm. (Michigan also views BP as NOT a firearm.

So am I understanding correctly that I may own a BP revolver, black powder, and round ball to recreationally shoot? I know for some it may be a no brainer question but I have worked very hard the past 17 years to stay on the straight and narrow, I'm also married with a young son so i don't want to get in any trouble again for possibly misreading something.

I've been looking at the 1858 Pietta Army (steel not brass) for shooting only recreational, and only using traditional loose powder, cap and ball. I would love to teach my young son and wife how to shoot and feel comfortable around them.

Beagle333 · June 8, 2017, 04:45 AM

I would not rely on internet opinion for something as important as this could be. Good luck to you though and I hope it turns out that you can enjoy making smoke legally with your son. Do seek legal advice from a legal professional though.
Good shooting!

Ricekila · June 8, 2017, 05:36 AM

Anything in here ?

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/stat...laws/michigan/

DD4lifeusmc · June 8, 2017, 07:54 AM

technically yes you can. But your best bet is ask a lawyer and get it in writing.
or write your attorney general and the ATF

Hawg · June 8, 2017, 09:03 AM

ATF does not consider bp firearms real firearms but some states do. Mississippi is one of them. It is illegal for a convicted felon to own or have one in his/her possession. Not even a single shot rifle to hunt with so do check with your state.

g.willikers · June 8, 2017, 09:44 AM

You might/will also have to convince any police officer you might run across.

Pahoo · June 8, 2017, 10:57 AM

BigFish,
This subject was discussed last year at one of our Hunter Safety workshops, conducted by the DNR. I have found that many of the Midwest state's laws, have much in common and what you have stated, holds true. .....

I too would advise you to confirm for your state with law enforcement. A good source, would be your local DNR officer and they too are law enforcement officers. ......

Good luck, get back to us and;
Be Safe !!!

swathdiver · June 8, 2017, 03:44 PM

Keep a copy of your state's laws and federal laws on you.

A case just concluded in Florida where a fellow also discovered his ability to hunt with antique firearms was legal. He asked the ATF and Florida game wardens. FWCs (Florida Fish & Wildlife) own website says its ok.

So this guy goes hunting and is arrested by an FWC officer who could've cared less about the laws, same as the prosecutors. Even idiot judges tried to ramroad this guy by adding things to the law that weren't there. Finally, after 5 years he was vindicated. Look up a fellow named "Weeks".

Now having said that, yes you can own and hunt, but you, not them, have the burden to prove it's ok. Sounds ludicrous but that's the way it is. Ignorance of the law is ok for them but not you. Lay low and shoot/hunt on private lands.

Driftwood Johnson · June 8, 2017, 04:14 PM

Howdy

I would not trust any internet source, including the one linked to from the NRA.

State gun laws often change frequently, and nobody is paying a legal consultant to keep up to date on these changes. When I looked up my state on that site, I found a couple of errors.

Consult a lawyer in your state who is well versed in firearms laws in your state. You have worked to hard to damage your reputation now because of possible bad advice.

Smokin'Joe · June 8, 2017, 07:00 PM

Owning a revolver is one thing. Possessing ammo is another thing. From my reading of Massachusetts law you do not need a gun permit to own a black powder revolver. However, if you are in possession of even a single component of the ammunition, without a permit, you can be arrested.

**4V50 Gary** · June 8, 2017, 08:30 PM

I'd write your state attorney general and ask for his opinion. Reduce it and carry it in your wallet.

BigFish · June 8, 2017, 09:58 PM

I did call my attorney general today, and I just got the run around. Then this lady came on and said "the person who deals with that is not in, you may leave a message for her"

FrontierGander · June 8, 2017, 11:09 PM

yeah i'd deff, talk to someone that knows about this. Not worth risking it!

BigFish · June 9, 2017, 07:59 AM

I just got off the phone with the Michigan attorney general and they told me to contact the Michigan State police fire arm division, they are the ones that handle that. I spoke with them just now and they said black powder is not considered a fire arm, so it is OK to have if you have a felony and have had your state rights restored. The black powder powder and round ball lead is also legal to have

Beagle333 · June 9, 2017, 09:05 AM

Congratulations!!! And welcome to the world of the white smoke!!!

Stormson · June 9, 2017, 07:23 PM

Adding one more "get it and keep it in writing".

For the MOST part cops TODAY are just as retarded as modern plumbers, cashiers, politicians or brain surgeons are... LOL

Seriously, it cant HURT to have a copy of the law ON you...

James K · June 11, 2017, 12:09 AM

Get an opinion in writing from the state attorney general or equivalent official. Do not rely on what a police officer might tell you, even if you can get an officer to put it in writing. As you already know, anything the state tells you applies only to THAT state, not to the Federal law or to any other state.

Jim

kraigwy · June 11, 2017, 08:17 AM

Quote:

I have a felony from 17 years ago. I recently had my state rights restored,

Not a BP answer, BUT, if the State restored you're rights, you can petition the ATF, to restore them also. They normally follow the State's lead but you do have to get them to do it.

Then you wont have to worry about Black Powder or Smokeless.

Just thought I'd throw that in.

swathdiver · June 11, 2017, 10:46 PM

The ATF is prohibited from restoring a felon's rights under federal law, that function has to be funded and it is purposely not funded. At present, a person with a federal felony can only get a pardon from the President.

Many states also have rules about ammunition that differ from Federal Law and can jam up someone.

It's nice to see all this advice to get advice from your government but the reality is your government is unlikely to provide it.

Lay low and hunt on private lands.

maillemaker · June 13, 2017, 01:19 PM

As I recall, if you want a legal answer the person to contact is your state's attorney general.

BigFish · June 14, 2017, 05:33 AM

I already contacted the AG, they told me absolutely no information other than passing me off to the Michigan state police firearms branch. Upon asking if it was legal for a felon with restored rights to own and possess and BP revolver and the appropriate ammunition, she said yes.

**4V50 Gary** · June 14, 2017, 02:59 PM

If your state police says you're GTG, then enjoy!

EphraimKibbey · July 16, 2017, 04:38 PM

Just going on "He/She said it was OK" will not get you very far in a court room. Get something in writing and notarized from the State Police as well as something from the AG that defers to the State Police's authority on this matter. Take notarized copies of these to your local County Sheriff and/or Police Chief as well as those in any other locality where you would be using your new NMA/1858 before spending your money. If any of them say "No you can't," you will need to get a lawyer and have a judge rule in your favor to safely enjoy the sport.

June 7, 2017, 11:26 PM	#1
BigFish Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2017 Posts: 4	New to BP. Question regarding legality I live in Michigan, and I have a felony from 17 years ago. I recently had my state rights restored, which allows me to own/possess muzzleloader, black powder, and high velocity BB. I also found on the ATF website where it states (paraphrasing) BP is not considered a firearm. (Michigan also views BP as NOT a firearm. So am I understanding correctly that I may own a BP revolver, black powder, and round ball to recreationally shoot? I know for some it may be a no brainer question but I have worked very hard the past 17 years to stay on the straight and narrow, I'm also married with a young son so i don't want to get in any trouble again for possibly misreading something. I've been looking at the 1858 Pietta Army (steel not brass) for shooting only recreational, and only using traditional loose powder, cap and ball. I would love to teach my young son and wife how to shoot and feel comfortable around them.

June 8, 2017, 04:45 AM	#2
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	I would not rely on internet opinion for something as important as this could be. Good luck to you though and I hope it turns out that you can enjoy making smoke legally with your son. Do seek legal advice from a legal professional though. Good shooting! __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

June 8, 2017, 05:36 AM	#3
Ricekila Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2017 Location: Lawnguyland, NY Posts: 169	Anything in here ? https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/stat...laws/michigan/ __________________ NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns Μολών Λaβέ

June 8, 2017, 09:44 AM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	You might/will also have to convince any police officer you might run across. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 8, 2017, 10:57 AM	#7
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Good question !!!! BigFish, This subject was discussed last year at one of our Hunter Safety workshops, conducted by the DNR. I have found that many of the Midwest state's laws, have much in common and what you have stated, holds true. ..... I too would advise you to confirm for your state with law enforcement. A good source, would be your local DNR officer and they too are law enforcement officers. ...... Good luck, get back to us and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

June 8, 2017, 07:54 AM	#4
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	technically yes you can. But your best bet is ask a lawyer and get it in writing. or write your attorney general and the ATF

June 8, 2017, 09:03 AM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	ATF does not consider bp firearms real firearms but some states do. Mississippi is one of them. It is illegal for a convicted felon to own or have one in his/her possession. Not even a single shot rifle to hunt with so do check with your state.

June 8, 2017, 03:44 PM	#8
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Keep a copy of your state's laws and federal laws on you. A case just concluded in Florida where a fellow also discovered his ability to hunt with antique firearms was legal. He asked the ATF and Florida game wardens. FWCs (Florida Fish & Wildlife) own website says its ok. So this guy goes hunting and is arrested by an FWC officer who could've cared less about the laws, same as the prosecutors. Even idiot judges tried to ramroad this guy by adding things to the law that weren't there. Finally, after 5 years he was vindicated. Look up a fellow named "Weeks". Now having said that, yes you can own and hunt, but you, not them, have the burden to prove it's ok. Sounds ludicrous but that's the way it is. Ignorance of the law is ok for them but not you. Lay low and shoot/hunt on private lands. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

June 8, 2017, 04:14 PM	#9
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy I would not trust any internet source, including the one linked to from the NRA. State gun laws often change frequently, and nobody is paying a legal consultant to keep up to date on these changes. When I looked up my state on that site, I found a couple of errors. Consult a lawyer in your state who is well versed in firearms laws in your state. You have worked to hard to damage your reputation now because of possible bad advice.

June 8, 2017, 07:00 PM	#10
Smokin'Joe Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2010 Posts: 211	Owning a revolver is one thing. Possessing ammo is another thing. From my reading of Massachusetts law you do not need a gun permit to own a black powder revolver. However, if you are in possession of even a single component of the ammunition, without a permit, you can be arrested.

June 8, 2017, 08:30 PM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I'd write your state attorney general and ask for his opinion. Reduce it and carry it in your wallet. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 8, 2017, 09:58 PM	#12
BigFish Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2017 Posts: 4	I did call my attorney general today, and I just got the run around. Then this lady came on and said "the person who deals with that is not in, you may leave a message for her"

June 8, 2017, 11:09 PM	#13
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	yeah i'd deff, talk to someone that knows about this. Not worth risking it! __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

June 9, 2017, 07:59 AM	#14
BigFish Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2017 Posts: 4	I just got off the phone with the Michigan attorney general and they told me to contact the Michigan State police fire arm division, they are the ones that handle that. I spoke with them just now and they said black powder is not considered a fire arm, so it is OK to have if you have a felony and have had your state rights restored. The black powder powder and round ball lead is also legal to have

June 9, 2017, 09:05 AM	#15
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Congratulations!!! And welcome to the world of the white smoke!!! __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

June 9, 2017, 07:23 PM	#16
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Adding one more "get it and keep it in writing". For the MOST part cops TODAY are just as retarded as modern plumbers, cashiers, politicians or brain surgeons are... LOL Seriously, it cant HURT to have a copy of the law ON you...

June 11, 2017, 12:09 AM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Get an opinion in writing from the state attorney general or equivalent official. Do not rely on what a police officer might tell you, even if you can get an officer to put it in writing. As you already know, anything the state tells you applies only to THAT state, not to the Federal law or to any other state. Jim

June 11, 2017, 10:46 PM	#19
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	The ATF is prohibited from restoring a felon's rights under federal law, that function has to be funded and it is purposely not funded. At present, a person with a federal felony can only get a pardon from the President. Many states also have rules about ammunition that differ from Federal Law and can jam up someone. It's nice to see all this advice to get advice from your government but the reality is your government is unlikely to provide it. Lay low and hunt on private lands. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

June 13, 2017, 01:19 PM	#20
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	As I recall, if you want a legal answer the person to contact is your state's attorney general.

June 14, 2017, 05:33 AM	#21
BigFish Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2017 Posts: 4	I already contacted the AG, they told me absolutely no information other than passing me off to the Michigan state police firearms branch. Upon asking if it was legal for a felon with restored rights to own and possess and BP revolver and the appropriate ammunition, she said yes.

June 14, 2017, 02:59 PM	#22
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	If your state police says you're GTG, then enjoy! __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 16, 2017, 04:38 PM	#23
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	Just going on "He/She said it was OK" will not get you very far in a court room. Get something in writing and notarized from the State Police as well as something from the AG that defers to the State Police's authority on this matter. Take notarized copies of these to your local County Sheriff and/or Police Chief as well as those in any other locality where you would be using your new NMA/1858 before spending your money. If any of them say "No you can't," you will need to get a lawyer and have a judge rule in your favor to safely enjoy the sport.