So Now Looking at The DA/SA system

chemcal · November 14, 2018, 09:48 AM

Sig DA/SA P series have way too heavy first pull for me. I have little experience with this platform(old revolver guy). Are there "better" DA/SA ccws to consider(something like a P250 first pull)? -- looking for compact size with about 12 round capacity

USNRet93 · November 14, 2018, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemcal

Sig DA/SA P series have way too heavy first pull for me. I have little experience with this platform(old revolver guy). Are there "better" DA/SA ccws to consider(something like a P250 first pull)? -- looking for compact size with about 12 round capacity

Glock 26?

CDR_Glock · November 14, 2018, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemcal

Sig DA/SA P series have way too heavy first pull for me. I have little experience with this platform(old revolver guy). Are there "better" DA/SA ccws to consider(something like a P250 first pull)? -- looking for compact size with about 12 round capacity

Have you tried the Legion?

I love my CZ 75 Compact.

I changed the internal springs. In SA/DA it is about 4/9 lbs.

Apart from that, there’s a CZ polymer version in Compact that you can get.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

pblanc · November 14, 2018, 10:08 AM

You can lighten up the DA trigger pull of a SIG classic P series pistol significantly just by installing a reduced force mainspring. This will also reduce the pull weight for the SA trigger pull slightly, because of the positive sear engagement angles and through reduced friction on the sear/hammer engagement surfaces. That is true for most other DA/SA pistols as well.

On the SIG P226 or 229 a 19 lb mainspring is probably as light as you should go on a self-defense pistol. For range use, many use a still lighter spring.

bamaranger · November 14, 2018, 10:29 AM

I shot and carried a P220 quite a bit for 20+ years, and the rest of the agencies 1200 or so rangers did too. Served as an armorer as well and handled quite a few in addition to my issue gun. Trigger pull "feel" can be a subjective thing, but no Sig DA/SA handgun that I dealt with was excessive, ie, seemed noticably heavier than a traditional DA revolver.

I quit shooting the Sig much after retiring, and anytime I do shoot it these days, the pull seems "heavier".....but only because I'm used to something else.

chemcal · November 14, 2018, 12:11 PM

what else do you shoot(and got used to)?

chemcal · November 14, 2018, 12:12 PM

BTW bama, does your team plan on losing to anybody?

1MoreFord · November 14, 2018, 04:33 PM

Sig triggers can be improved. Many years ago I handled one that had been worked on by a smith that worked at Guns and Ammo in Memphis. It had one of the best DA triggers I've ever experienced.

wnycollector · November 14, 2018, 05:41 PM

What about a S&W 6904/6906? DA/SA with 12 round capacity. If you don't like the trigger pull weight, swapping a Wolff reduced power hammer spring is a 10 minute job.

chemcal · November 14, 2018, 06:51 PM

appreciating the info; I would like to have a ccw that is currently being produced.

HistoryJunky · November 14, 2018, 08:53 PM

I find that CZ pistols have a smooth DA trigger after they smooth out. As for weight IDK, but my full size 85b has a very smooth pull and I don't think about the weight.

They make a subcompact CZ RAMI but I know nothing about the trigger. I do know that people that are used to shooting striker fired guns exclusively tend to struggle shooting DA. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone.

TxFlyFish · November 14, 2018, 09:15 PM

Another option would be HK P2000SK or p30sk

dakota.potts · November 15, 2018, 02:54 AM

I would try to get your hands on a CZ P-01. The pull may be a little on the heavy side, but it is smooth. One unique thing is that the decocker drops the hammer into half-cock instead of full hammer down position. I find that it significantly decreases the length of the trigger pull compared to other DA designs

sigxder · November 16, 2018, 12:33 AM

Beretta Compact PX4 with the Cougar "D" spring. Best DA/SA trigger pull with just a little work. 15 rounds. Rotating barrel make for accurate, light recoiling gun.

tarhealcracker · November 16, 2018, 02:05 PM

Take a look at the Bersa Thunder .380 Plus and see what you think. You may have to call around as gun stores like to only stock the super expensive brands.

cslinger · November 16, 2018, 02:10 PM

I don’t know if this is of any use to you whatsoever but I took a look at several DA/SA alternatives compared to the Glock 19 and wrote my findings here.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...5/m/5700047844

I don’t specifically discuss trigger nor is there any science involved but since lots of folks seem to be finding some virtue in DA/SA lately I figured I’d kick in my own idjit opinions.

AK103K · November 16, 2018, 02:43 PM

I owned and shot a number of P Series SIG's over the years, and other than a couple of P6 police trade ins, that had somewhat noticeable different DA triggers, I always thought that their DA/DAO triggers were really quite nice.

The P6's werent bad either, just heavier. I replaced the mainsprings in them, more for commonality than anything else, to bring the triggers more in line with the commercial SIG's I had.

Im not a trigger phobic person, and 99.9% of my guns, handguns or long guns, have stock factory triggers in them. I shoot a lot of DAO revolver, so Im used to that type of shooting, and actually prefer it over any of the single actions, revolver or auto. My P245 was a factory DAO gun (not DAK), and it was probably the nicest DA SIG trigger I had. The P250's were nice too, but a tad long. Not that that was a problem, they were good shooters too.

Personally, when I hear complaints about triggers, especially these days, I usually figure its a shooter issue, and not a gun issue.

While I have had a couple (exactly 2) of former Com Bloc DA autos that had horrendous DA triggers, they were not the norm across five plus decades of shooting all manner of firearms.

chemcal · November 17, 2018, 12:27 AM

wonderful job cslinger; i do like the P99.

Ibmikey · November 19, 2018, 03:41 AM

A CZ is heavy enough to anchor the Queen Mary, a S&W 669 is a DA/SA semi auto with a 12 round mag is much lighter and easily cońcealed. I changed the bobbed hammer to one with a spur out of a 5906.

tallball · November 19, 2018, 06:38 AM

For a full-sized pistol, my CZ75 is easily my favorite. The trigger is excellent.

My Sig P229 is a little bit smaller and lighter, but its trigger is great too.

For a small 9mm, I haven't found a DA/SA pistol better than the Glock 26 or 43. I've owned and traded away several other small 9mm pistols. The Glocks are just better.

chemcal · November 19, 2018, 10:08 AM

S&W 669

anything similar still in production?

Winny · November 19, 2018, 10:47 AM

I can't speak to the Sig, but on my Beretta 92 I swapped out the D spring with a lighter weight spring and it smoothed my DA pull drastically. The reduced weight made a world of difference for me

chemcal · November 19, 2018, 12:09 PM

any light strikes?

T. O'Heir · November 19, 2018, 12:35 PM

All factory triggers require work right out of the box. Doesn't matter if it's a DA, SA or DA/SA. Has to do with the fear of liability law suits the MBA's running the firearms companies have. It's also why most warrantees are voided if you do a trigger job or any other modifications.
Just changing the springs can help, but a proper trigger job done by a smithy who knows what he's doing is best.

AK103K · November 19, 2018, 04:03 PM

Quote:

All factory triggers require work right out of the box. Doesn't matter if it's a DA, SA or DA/SA. Has to do with the fear of liability law suits the MBA's running the firearms companies have. It's also why most warrantees are voided if you do a trigger job or any other modifications.
Just changing the springs can help, but a proper trigger job done by a smithy who knows what he's doing is best.

I have to disagree. This sounds more like a sales pitch for custom trigger makers and gunsmiths.

It seems to me these days, everyone is "trigger phobic" and worries more on their triggers than they do about actually shooting the gun.

Personally, I think its more of an excuse for their shortcomings, than anything else. If for whatever reason they cant seem to shoot the gun well, its got to be the guns fault. Its not going to be theirs.

Out of all the guns I have, and I have a few, I have exactly "one" rifle, that has a trigger that wouldnt be considered "factory", but it is a factory match trigger for the gun. I got the gun used, and it came with it. I wouldnt have bothered otherwise. I have no troubles shooting any of the guns I have, and I dont think (consciously anyway) about the trigger when I shoot, and thats not where your focus should be anyway.

In this day and age, even with all the litigation worry, normal factory triggers are really pretty good. If you cant shoot the gun well, its likely not the guns fault.

November 14, 2018, 09:48 AM	#1
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	So Now Looking at The DA/SA system Sig DA/SA P series have way too heavy first pull for me. I have little experience with this platform(old revolver guy). Are there "better" DA/SA ccws to consider(something like a P250 first pull)? -- looking for compact size with about 12 round capacity

November 14, 2018, 10:29 AM	#5
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	heavy? I shot and carried a P220 quite a bit for 20+ years, and the rest of the agencies 1200 or so rangers did too. Served as an armorer as well and handled quite a few in addition to my issue gun. Trigger pull "feel" can be a subjective thing, but no Sig DA/SA handgun that I dealt with was excessive, ie, seemed noticably heavier than a traditional DA revolver. I quit shooting the Sig much after retiring, and anytime I do shoot it these days, the pull seems "heavier".....but only because I'm used to something else.

November 14, 2018, 05:41 PM	#9
wnycollector Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2007 Posts: 1,996	What about a S&W 6904/6906? DA/SA with 12 round capacity. If you don't like the trigger pull weight, swapping a Wolff reduced power hammer spring is a 10 minute job. __________________ The wicked flee when no man pursueth - Proverbs 28:1

November 15, 2018, 02:54 AM	#13
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I would try to get your hands on a CZ P-01. The pull may be a little on the heavy side, but it is smooth. One unique thing is that the decocker drops the hammer into half-cock instead of full hammer down position. I find that it significantly decreases the length of the trigger pull compared to other DA designs __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

November 16, 2018, 02:10 PM	#16
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	I don’t know if this is of any use to you whatsoever but I took a look at several DA/SA alternatives compared to the Glock 19 and wrote my findings here. http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...5/m/5700047844 I don’t specifically discuss trigger nor is there any science involved but since lots of folks seem to be finding some virtue in DA/SA lately I figured I’d kick in my own idjit opinions. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

November 14, 2018, 10:08 AM	#4
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	You can lighten up the DA trigger pull of a SIG classic P series pistol significantly just by installing a reduced force mainspring. This will also reduce the pull weight for the SA trigger pull slightly, because of the positive sear engagement angles and through reduced friction on the sear/hammer engagement surfaces. That is true for most other DA/SA pistols as well. On the SIG P226 or 229 a 19 lb mainspring is probably as light as you should go on a self-defense pistol. For range use, many use a still lighter spring.

November 14, 2018, 12:11 PM	#6
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	what else do you shoot(and got used to)?

November 14, 2018, 12:12 PM	#7
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	BTW bama, does your team plan on losing to anybody?

November 14, 2018, 04:33 PM	#8
1MoreFord Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2014 Location: Arkansas Posts: 244	Sig triggers can be improved. Many years ago I handled one that had been worked on by a smith that worked at Guns and Ammo in Memphis. It had one of the best DA triggers I've ever experienced.

November 14, 2018, 06:51 PM	#10
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	appreciating the info; I would like to have a ccw that is currently being produced.

November 14, 2018, 08:53 PM	#11
HistoryJunky Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Location: Freeport, IL Posts: 833	I find that CZ pistols have a smooth DA trigger after they smooth out. As for weight IDK, but my full size 85b has a very smooth pull and I don't think about the weight. They make a subcompact CZ RAMI but I know nothing about the trigger. I do know that people that are used to shooting striker fired guns exclusively tend to struggle shooting DA. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone.

November 14, 2018, 09:15 PM	#12
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	Another option would be HK P2000SK or p30sk

November 16, 2018, 12:33 AM	#14
sigxder Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 390	Beretta Compact PX4 with the Cougar "D" spring. Best DA/SA trigger pull with just a little work. 15 rounds. Rotating barrel make for accurate, light recoiling gun.

November 16, 2018, 02:05 PM	#15
tarhealcracker Member Join Date: July 8, 2018 Posts: 59	Take a look at the Bersa Thunder .380 Plus and see what you think. You may have to call around as gun stores like to only stock the super expensive brands.

November 16, 2018, 02:43 PM	#17
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I owned and shot a number of P Series SIG's over the years, and other than a couple of P6 police trade ins, that had somewhat noticeable different DA triggers, I always thought that their DA/DAO triggers were really quite nice. The P6's werent bad either, just heavier. I replaced the mainsprings in them, more for commonality than anything else, to bring the triggers more in line with the commercial SIG's I had. Im not a trigger phobic person, and 99.9% of my guns, handguns or long guns, have stock factory triggers in them. I shoot a lot of DAO revolver, so Im used to that type of shooting, and actually prefer it over any of the single actions, revolver or auto. My P245 was a factory DAO gun (not DAK), and it was probably the nicest DA SIG trigger I had. The P250's were nice too, but a tad long. Not that that was a problem, they were good shooters too. Personally, when I hear complaints about triggers, especially these days, I usually figure its a shooter issue, and not a gun issue. While I have had a couple (exactly 2) of former Com Bloc DA autos that had horrendous DA triggers, they were not the norm across five plus decades of shooting all manner of firearms.

November 17, 2018, 12:27 AM	#18
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	wonderful job cslinger; i do like the P99.

November 19, 2018, 03:41 AM	#19
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	A CZ is heavy enough to anchor the Queen Mary, a S&W 669 is a DA/SA semi auto with a 12 round mag is much lighter and easily cońcealed. I changed the bobbed hammer to one with a spur out of a 5906.

November 19, 2018, 06:38 AM	#20
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	For a full-sized pistol, my CZ75 is easily my favorite. The trigger is excellent. My Sig P229 is a little bit smaller and lighter, but its trigger is great too. For a small 9mm, I haven't found a DA/SA pistol better than the Glock 26 or 43. I've owned and traded away several other small 9mm pistols. The Glocks are just better.

November 19, 2018, 10:08 AM	#21
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	S&W 669 anything similar still in production?

November 19, 2018, 10:47 AM	#22
Winny Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2018 Location: SC, USA Posts: 136	I can't speak to the Sig, but on my Beretta 92 I swapped out the D spring with a lighter weight spring and it smoothed my DA pull drastically. The reduced weight made a world of difference for me

November 19, 2018, 12:09 PM	#23
chemcal Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2014 Posts: 281	any light strikes?

November 19, 2018, 12:35 PM	#24
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	All factory triggers require work right out of the box. Doesn't matter if it's a DA, SA or DA/SA. Has to do with the fear of liability law suits the MBA's running the firearms companies have. It's also why most warrantees are voided if you do a trigger job or any other modifications. Just changing the springs can help, but a proper trigger job done by a smithy who knows what he's doing is best. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!