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Old February 20, 2018, 06:35 PM   #1
thirtysixford
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Savage 99 question

I had a 99 refinished and the lever was blued when I got it back. Looks okay, but I prefer the original rainbow colored case hardened look.

I picked up a mint lever with great coloring. Was wondering if the lever screw and bushing was also originally case hardened color or blued?
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Old February 20, 2018, 09:35 PM   #2
hammie
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I just checked my savage 99 and the lever is color case hardened, but the lever screw is blued. However, my rifle is an early 70's production and it may be different for older rifles. Mike Irwin on this forum knows a lot about savage 99's. Perhaps he'll see this and weigh in.
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Old February 21, 2018, 02:36 AM   #3
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Just so you don't try to wrestle with your 99, the levers were hand-fitted to each gun. They are not a drop-in part. Use the lever that came with the gun. In the past, I have flame colored the levers on Savage 99 rifles, but unless you really know what you are doing it can turn out pretty poorly. If you want the color-cased look, there are many people around the country who can color case harden the lever for you. If it is important to keep the original look of it, try contacting CPA Rifles (https://www.cparifles.com/) or a specialty restorer like Hunter Restorations (http://mikehunterrestorations.com/). I have used both for different projects, and there is nothing like the look of real color case hardening to fully round out a rifle refinishing project. One of the members on this forum who recently bought a Savage 99 I restored might provide photos.
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Old February 21, 2018, 10:21 AM   #4
Charlie98
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Scorch... speaking of case color... have you ever seen a 99 receiver case colored? I've got a nice 99F, but it looks like the receiver was cleaned with a scratchy pad at one point, so there are all these fine scratches on it. I've always wanted to color one of my levergun receivers...
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Old February 21, 2018, 11:32 AM   #5
johnwilliamson062
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Isn't the bluing a very thin surface treatment? Wouldn't the case color hardening still be under the bluing?
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Old February 21, 2018, 01:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Isn't the bluing a very thin surface treatment? Wouldn't the case color hardening still be under the bluing?
Correctly speaking... it's case coloring... not case hardening, which is a metal treatment. It took me a while to realize they were different.
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Old February 21, 2018, 03:48 PM   #7
Scorch
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Quote:
Scorch... speaking of case color... have you ever seen a 99 receiver case colored?
Yes, I have. A very finely engraved Savage 1899 in 303 Savage with premium wood and checkering.
Quote:
it's case coloring... not case hardening, which is a metal treatment.
No, actually it is color case hardening. It is carburizing, a heat treating process. Originally, CCH was done to surface harden the iron or mild steel used to make critical parts (think S&W hammers and triggers, early Winchester levers and hammers), but later it was used as a decorative embellishment. The colors come from the mix of materials the metal is packed in before heat treatment. The crucible is packed with bone charcoal, feathers, leather, and sometimes a "secret ingredient" (blood meal, cow dung, hooves, etc) to give the results a "special look". The crucible is heated to about 1,200 degrees and the metal is quenched in oxygenated water. There is also a ferrocyanide method of color case hardening, similar to the nitriding process currently used, that would give a striped colored look (early Stevens or Savage rifles used this process). Color case hardening gives a surface hardness of about 70 Rc to a depth of about .005"-.010" (as opposed to today's gas case hardening that gives surface hardnesses up to 75-80 Rc penetrates about .020"-.025").

The packing material gives the finished metal a predictable appearance. If the metal were packed in wood charcoal, the metal would be dark gray when it comes out. Mauser 98s made up to about 1950s were carburized by packing in coke and heating to about 1,100 degrees then quenched. The dark gray color of original M98s was the color as it came from the carburizing process.

Nowadays, you see coloring added to some firearms' surfaces to simulate color case hardening (Uberti SAAs, Pedersoli rifles, etc), but it is just a dye process.
Quote:
Wouldn't the case color hardening still be under the bluing?
No, when the metal is polished, it goes through the case hardening to softer metal below (case hardened steel is hard to blue). The colors are just on the surface, which is why they wear off.
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Old February 22, 2018, 12:54 PM   #8
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Depending on the age, yes, I believe they were, and I believe that it was an option to have it either blued or case colored, but I'm not 100% certain about that.
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Old February 22, 2018, 08:40 PM   #9
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My 1952 EG is blued, I am good with that, I bet yours looks good !!!
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Old February 25, 2018, 12:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Nowadays, you see coloring added to some firearms' surfaces to simulate color case hardening (Uberti SAAs, Pedersoli rifles, etc), but it is just a dye process.
Well... and that's what I meant. I know that most (if not all) modern 'color case hardening' is just that... a color treatment, the actual metal hardness properties are not changed. Do you mean to suggest sending my 99 off to get it treated would change the metal's properties? I have a Ruger Vaquero with a colored frame... are you suggesting that it is actually color case hardened in the traditional manner?
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Old February 26, 2018, 11:31 AM   #11
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Yes, sending the lever from your 99 off to have it color case hardened will harden the metal and help prevent wear on the lever pivot and bolt cam surfaces (those are critical points). But since those are already hardened, and the person that reblued it didn't work on the hardened surfaces, you are talking about doing color case hardening just to restore appearance (purely cosmetic). But color case hardening does change the properties of the metal, as would any case hardening.

And no, your Ruger Vaquero is one of the guns with dyed steel. Pretty, but not case hardening.
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Old November 4, 2018, 05:34 PM   #12
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Have been gone a long time.

Not sure if any interest in this after so long. I lost my Dad, and had had a little trouble dealing with that. But I'm back


I watched videos on replacing the lever and it didn't seem too difficult

New lever went right in and I fired 10 rounds with no issues.

Not sure what a gunsmith would have done to this other than if the lever either hit the receiver too early and didn't lock or the other way and didn't close.

I'm liking the rainbow one the best, but will keep both.
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Old November 4, 2018, 08:46 PM   #13
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Sorry to hear about your dad.

Glad the lever worked like it was supposed to. Any problems getting the action back together?
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Old November 6, 2018, 03:44 PM   #14
thirtysixford
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No issues at all. The videos are a great tool.

Before I tried installing it, I superimposed the two over each other and I could see the finger grip portions aligned and were shaped identically. I have some nice Grace screwdrivers and was careful not to bugger up the screws.

Anyway I like it.
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