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November 7, 2018, 09:38 PM | #1 |
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Browning BAR Caliber Dilemma - Input Requested
I've decided to purchase a BAR to round out my center-fire rifle holdings. I'm struggling to decide on the caliber. I suspect some here can provide me with some points for consideration that haven't even crossed my mind. Here's my foundation and thinking so far.
Thoughts? What have I failed to consider, or what would you do and why? Thanks in advance, Andrew
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November 7, 2018, 10:36 PM | #2 |
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I'd get the .270---.25-06 ammo seems to be scarce around here.
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November 8, 2018, 09:37 AM | #3 |
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I'd just get the 25-06 and be done with it... the BAR is a fine rifle, I don't see why it wouldn't give acceptable accuracy without the BOSS.
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November 8, 2018, 10:12 AM | #4 |
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I'm not a hog hunter, but I've ruined the day for Wily Coyote a few times.
If mostly coyotes, I'd go with a .243; a 100-grain bullet would work on hogs. I'd use a 55-grain load on coyotes. If mostly hogs, I think I'd go with a 7mm08 and use light-weight bullets on coyotes. |
November 8, 2018, 11:23 AM | #5 |
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There’s nothing special about the “BOSS”... after all, the rifles you already have shoot fine without it, right?
Reduced recoil is nice.... but why get a bigger gun with a recoil reducer just to get it down the recoil of the gun you wanted in the first place? If my targets were deer, hogs and coyotes, I’d rather have the .243 that .25-06 or .270.... but that’s me. Any of them would work just fine. .270 is pretty stout for coyotes though. Ammo availability would not enter the equation for me... every caliber in discussion is readily available almost everywhere and circumstances requiring an “emergency” supply are so improbable, and the consequences so minimal, as to be of no concern at all. A 7-08 BAR with the BOSS would be frickin’ awesome though.
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November 8, 2018, 11:42 AM | #6 |
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My Browning BAR is in the 308 caliber. Works great on hogs here in Texas.
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November 8, 2018, 02:06 PM | #7 |
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"...multiple kills..." Won't happen. Ain't no flock of varmints that won't disappear completely with the sound of one shot.
"...gets me close to the capability..." So does a .25-06. Only difference is with like bullet weights, the .25-06 has more remaining energy at long range. With a 100 grain bullet, at 500 yards(way too far anyway) it has 689 ft-lbs of energy vs the 594 ft-lbs of a 100 grain .270. Bullet drop is within inches of each other. "...reduces recoil..." A BAR is gas operated. There is no recoil. I wouldn't get fixated on the BOSS either. It's really just another muzzle brake with the same increase in muzzle blast that has to be fiddled with according to the ammo used. "...is readily available almost everywhere..." Not the .25-06 it isn't.
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November 8, 2018, 04:17 PM | #8 |
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For hunting big boars, the .338 Magnum cartridge would be my choice-though I'm sure the .25-06 or .270 or .30-06 would work just fine.
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November 8, 2018, 04:29 PM | #9 |
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Hmmm. Thanks for all the input. Now my head is whirling.
Thanks again. This all has me considering things I otherwise wouldn't have thought about, which is the point of the thread. Andrew
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November 8, 2018, 06:45 PM | #10 |
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Basically, in the common 139-grain (or 140-grain) deer loading, I see the 7mm08 as a .308 with ten grains less bullet weight. Performance is pretty much the same. Mine is a 700 Ti; recoil at the bench is not onerous.
Many hog hunters post regularly of success with heavy bullets in the .223, which is why I figure that a 100-grain bullet from a 243 would work. I got lazy and only use the 85-grain Sierra HPBT for deer and coyotes in my .243, but have mostly done neck shots. It's a blow-up bullet, so no angling shots. |
November 8, 2018, 07:37 PM | #11 |
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Thanks Art. Yes, I too know a bunch of guys that use the .223/5.56 on hogs. I'm just not enamored with the round for use on game. I've tried it and the AR platform just isn't my style either. I'm an old fart and I simply prefer a traditional rifle stock. If I go with a composite BAR, it will be my first composite rifle outside of my trusty Marlin 795.
The 25-06 only comes in the Safari model. The .243 comes in several models, as does the 7mm-08. But right now I'm leaning towards either the .243 or the 25-06. But I'm still very open to thoughts and suggestions.
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November 9, 2018, 12:46 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
Any way, my love of the 7-08 is certainly no secret around these parts. I think it's the best North American big game cartridge in existence. I use light-weight, fast bullets (110 or 120gr TTSX). It has never failed to impress me immensely. I've killed numerous deer (15" Encore Pro Hunter) and one elk (Tikka T3x) with 7-08 at ranges from feet to 250 yards and can't imagine any reason I'd switch. If you step up to low-end .308 bullet weights (around 160gr) the 7-08 actually has (slightly) better ballistics and (barely) better energy. Barely, but better. Most shooters don't do that though, and you won't often find factory ammo in those weights. In fact, in factory, you'll almost never find anything but 120 and 139/140gr... but that's all you need. If you roll your own, varmint bullets are available down to 100gr and target bullets up to 175gr, although I'd guess a BAR won't stabilize those. If you do some comparisons, you'll see that the 7-08 has roughly 15% less recoil than a .308. That doesn't seem like a lot and if you're not bothered by recoil, it won't be. Personally, I had all the recoil I needed when I grew up hunting deer with 12ga slugs. .308 is over my recoil fun factor... 7-08 is below it. I'm also a big fan of the .243... my semi-dedicated deer gun (a customized Savage 11 with a McGowen barrel is .243AI, just to be different). I shoot light and fast there too, with 80gr TTSX @ 3,500fps. It's hell on deer. Regular .243 would be ~100fps slower. (Irrelevant difference). .25-06 is a fine round... I don't like it because it seems antiquated.... I don't know what that matters, I still like Art. I could argue long vs short action, efficiency, aesthetics, whatever. I don't know, it just never struck my fancy. If you like it, have at it, it'll work just fine. Now, a .25-08? That I'd buy.
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November 9, 2018, 04:40 AM | #13 |
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I have 2 BARs, one in .30 06, the other in 7mm Mag. I love the design. For the use you described I would consider .308. The availability of ammo being a big consideration. Also, .243 is a great intermediary round.
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November 9, 2018, 07:58 AM | #14 |
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Thanks folks.
I'm hearing a lot about the 7mm-08 and .308. Those seem like overkill for coyotes and typical Texas hog (not the big boars). I'm not recoil sensitive, but the recoil from the larger loads won't make it any easier to take doubles or triples on coyotes, which is the main point of this rifle. Right now, I shoot more coyotes than hogs. Is there something I'm missing as to why these stronger loads are being suggested? If not, right now I'm torn between the 25-06 and the .243. I'm leaning towards the .243, but having no experience with the 25-06 I don't want to make an uninformed decision. Thanks again, Andrew
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November 9, 2018, 10:46 AM | #15 |
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November 9, 2018, 10:50 AM | #16 |
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I don’t see any reason to choose .25-06 over .243, except personal presence. The -06 has advantages on paper, but they don’t amount to much in real life.
The .243 is one of the most popular cartridges ever invented and can be reasonably used on everything from ground hogs to elk. Ammo will probably be 10-20% cheaper than the -06 too.
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November 9, 2018, 12:18 PM | #17 |
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Brian, thanks for the clarification.
Art, that's quite a thread. I'll have to spend some time looking through it. Thanks.
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November 15, 2018, 01:18 PM | #18 |
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Thanks for all the input. I decided on a Stalker in .243. I believe it will work fine for where I want it to fit.
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November 15, 2018, 04:33 PM | #19 |
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We’ll be expecting pics and a range report!
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November 15, 2018, 05:20 PM | #20 |
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December 17, 2018, 02:02 PM | #21 |
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Range Report
Well, I finally had the opportunity to mount the scope and get out to the range. The weather was perfect at 60 degrees, sunny, and no wind. I took a few shots at 50 yards to get a halfway decent zero, then moved to 100 yards. I had a brain cramp and accidentally doubled my final adjustments, so I shot low and a little right. I didn't have time for one more set to confirm I have it dialed in. Oh well; next time. I do like the fit and feel of the rifle. I thought I might use the shims provided to adjust the drop and cast, but it fits so well now that I may not bother. (Then again, I haven't shot offhand or from sticks just yet, so I may end up trying the shims.) The length of pull is perfect for me. It's an attractive rifle (for not having wood).
But I have to say that I'm slightly underwhelmed at the moment. All my groups (5 shots each) were just shy of 2 MOA. I'd really hoped for better, especially with Hornady ammo. None of my bolt action rifles dislike Hornady. Hopefully the rifle is more capable than I'm seeing now. Perhaps a different bullet will help. I'll have to see what I can find. Honestly, if I can't get fairly close to 1 MOA with some coyote focused ammo then I'll be a bit disappointed.
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December 19, 2018, 12:33 AM | #22 |
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Nice rifle. Did you shoot it from a rest or with both arms sitting at the bench? A couple of mine don't play well with a front sandbag, but do much better holding them.
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December 19, 2018, 05:28 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
I shot from a concrete bench with a simple Caldwell rest in front and a bag at the rear, while also holding the rifle somewhat close to normal. Next time out I'll try some other ammo selections. I'll also try some offhand, prone, and shooting stick shots. But I'm still bummed. I've never had a rifle drop a full MOA with different ammo or hold. That's about what it's going to take. Sigh. Maybe I expected too much from the model.
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December 19, 2018, 09:57 PM | #24 |
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Was just shooting the 270 BAR the other day and noticed once again how light the recoil is. As for accuracy, back when I hunted and target shot with it, it would shoot at 1 MOA or a bit less with handloads. It liked IMR 4064 and Nosler 130 gr BTs. You will want to use a powder that is suitable for the semiauto action and won’t beat it up.
I really liked the BAR, but it just wasn’t the gun for target shooting, so I moved to bolt guns. And, as i aged, the BAR seemed to get heavier. And...it took a lot of work to do a deep clean on the BAR, and you should acquire and keep a spare buffer on hand. You won’t need it till you need it, but eventually you will need it. |
December 20, 2018, 10:54 AM | #25 |
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(Bolt gun) My lazy man's do-all handload for my .243 is the Sierra 85-grain HPBT with 3031. I don't know if it's still produced, but Federal used to make that load and it was as tight-group as my handloads.
Great coyote load. It's a blow-up bullet so on Bambi I only take neck or cross-body heart/lung shots; no angling shots. So far, two-dozen tagged bucks with it. |
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