S&W Hammer Spring

[DaleA]

S&W side plate. My uncle said it would be very easy to get hurt removing an S&W side plate because if he saw me doing it he would hurt me.

I've since found that there are many folk that take the side plate off and an awful lot of them don't know how to do it. (correctly) Several folk right here have detailed the correct method for removing it.

To me the revolver side plate is a CLASSIC case of the 'you not only don't know, you have no idea that you don't know you don't know' syndrome.

(Let's see here, just remove the screws, (this here screw driver is close enough) and then after I get the screws removed just use the tip of the screw driver to pry that plate off the gun. Easy peasy!) (For any really new folk to firearms this is NOT the way to do it. But it might just possibly be what I did with my first no-name revolver about a bijillion years ago...and yeah I screwed around with the strain screw and yeah in general kind of screwed up the gun.)

[Mike Irwin]

Last year some clown came in and posted his "how to" video for S&W revolvers.

While he was prying the side plate off he was ridiculing the frame strike method.

It didn't go well for him here.

Most of the rest of his video was equally idiotic.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I bought my first two Smith and Wesson revolvers, brand-spanky new, in 1975.

A Model 17-3 and a Model 19-3. I probably bought them in that order, I don't really remember. Way back then I took the side plate off of one of them to look inside. Honestly, I have no idea how I took the side plate off. I certainly had not heard of the correct way to take off the side plate, the frame strike method. Whether or not I pried the side plate off I honestly do not remember. I don't even remember exactly which one I removed the side plate on, it was that long ago. I do know that if I look at those revolvers today, I see no evidence of having pried off the side plate. I must have been lucky. What I do remember is that as soon as I got the plate off, and looked inside, all those parts in there scared the dickens out of me and I quickly put the side plate back on. It was not until many years later that a very good gunsmith showed me how to remove the side plate, and how to take the mechanism apart without ruining anything.

I consider myself pretty competent these days to take a S&W revolver apart without damaging anything. I do not kid myself that I am a good enough gunsmith to start messing around seriously inside. I usually just take them apart to give them a good cleaning, then put them back together again.

A man has to know his limitations. I will take an antique Top Break S&W apart only so far. Once it comes to driving pins out to remove some of the parts, I stop right there and go no further.

On the other hand, a fellow S&W collector friend of mine shakes his head every time I mention taking the side plate off a Smith. He feels that the workers at S&W put so much effort into getting the fit absolutely perfect that the side plate should never be removed or it will be damaged. He has probably seen too many pried off side plates.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

Last year some clown came in and posted his "how to" video for S&W revolvers.

While he was prying the side plate off he was ridiculing the frame strike method.

It didn't go well for him here.

I remember it. And apparently, he hasn't posted in the revolver sub-forum since. It starts with post #26 in the link below.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=577162&page=2

[DPris]

The S&W LE armorer course I went through had no problem in teaching sideplate removal.
And it didn't involve prying.
Denis

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I never saw that video before. I sure cringed when he pried off the side plate. That may be how I did it that one time a bazillion years ago, don't really remember. I too was curious how he was going to keep track of where each of the screws went, he did not take any trouble to match them to their holes.

And I kept wondering why he did not remove the cylinder until he started removing the lockwork. I usually take the cylinder out first thing, before I even remove the side plate.

Watched it for a few minutes, but then had to shut it off.

[Mike Irwin]

"I remember it. And apparently, he hasn't posted in the revolver sub-forum since."

Thank God. The man is a fool.

[Don P]

Last year some clown came in and posted his "how to" video for S&W revolvers.

While he was prying the side plate off he was ridiculing the frame strike method.

I just had the displeasure of watching the first 3-4 minutes of the video from the link MrBorland provided. There are blissful people out there and then there are BLISSFUL people

[arquebus357]

With help from my new AGI DVD, I disassembled and reassembled my newly acquired S&W 64-3. I was somewhat concerned that my instructor was NOT using hollow ground screwdrivers. I did make a tool for installing the rebound slide spring. I also took the precaution of sitting on a milk crate inside my bathtub for much of the reassembly procedure.

All in all I did not think it was all that difficult. Actually much more straightforward than say a Ruger single action revolver. ( how in the hell does that Ruger guy do that )

[Mike Irwin]

Good on you.

And yes, S&W's design is far more straight forward and easy than either a classic Colt or a modern Ruger.

For reinstalling the rebound slide spring I use a Phillips head screwdriver. The flutes make it very easy to get the spring loop over the post.

[Driftwood Johnson]

For reinstalling the rebound slide spring I use a Phillips head screwdriver.

I'll have to try that next time.

[otasan]

My S&W 629 has a smooth 10-pound DA trigger pull. Done by a pistolsmith in LA CA.

[Ibmikey]

I have read Mike Irwin’s responses through out this posting and being a person who completed the S&W Armors course three times ( told the dept. I needed a refresher to remain current and it satisfied State training requirements), his comments ( except for his levity are quite correct. There are specific surfaces that are not to be stoned yet most trigger jobs brought to me by officers with complaints had the entire interior stoned and polished. I kept a supply of spare parts and would replace all botched parts, short mainspring strain screws and chopped springs and reminded the officer that issued weapons are not to be modified, possibly rendering them dangerous.
Come to think of it his levity is right on also. .

[Mike Irwin]

Levity?

LEVITY????


GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[gnystrom]

Sadly, I don't own a S&W revolver that has not had a trigger job and/or springs swapped. They all have become more enjoyable for everyone to shoot and I personally shoot them far more accurately which is the purpose of owning a gun in the first place. I could say the same for my 3" Ruger SP101 which is an absolute joy to shoot. In fact the only bone stock revolver I currently own is a Kimber K6S which came with a magnificent trigger from the factory.

Never a problem with any of them unless the strain screw backed itself out. Locktite is your friend.

[Hanshi]

In general, I like the springs to remain "full power". However, some revolvers have spring tension that's not conducive to accuracy. In that case, IMHO, the strain screw can be reasonably shortened and the revolver will remain reliable. I did have a friend - former bullseye competitor and career law enforcement - who lightened his too much and lost score points at the academy; enabled me to shoot a record score, by the way.

[arquebus357]

S&W revolver springs revisited.

Did some work on my 64-3 (subject of this thread). Replaced an ugly sear which was a replacement and was poorly fit. Not sure why they call this piece a sear. I also replaced the trigger rebound spring with a Wolff 14# one.

When in single action mode and the hammer cocked, the rebound spring is resisting your trigger pull. When you lighten that spring your single action trigger pull becomes magical.

[DPris]

But if you go TOO far, it affects the trigger return.
Denis

[arquebus357]

^^^^^
Yes it does. Except it's not a matter of "going too far" . The trigger now returns with less authority than it did with the factory rebound spring. This doesn't seem to have an adverse effect. I will need to test at the range. I have three more, stiffer, Wolff springs to play with.

Actually, the trigger return now feels much more like my Ruger Security Six.

[Mike Irwin]

" In that case, IMHO, the strain screw can be reasonably shortened and the revolver will remain reliable."

Define reasonable.

How FAR can you shorten the screw BEFORE you end up with a knuckling main spring and ignition issues?

If you do shorten the screw too much, what's your option then? Normally it's a dead gun until you can find a new strain screw.

That's a fantastic option. Not.

That's why aftermarket reduced power springs are commonly available today, so you don't have to play "chimp with a rock."

[straightshooterjake]

OP, glad you are getting good results with your model 64. There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, and there are a couple of things I want to respond to. I am sorry I missed this thread when it was first active a couple of weeks ago.

Earlier, there was discussion about whether .357 magnum revolvers need greater mainspring tension. Well, the S&W armorer's manual says that they do. In the second post of this thread there is a page from the armorer's manual. In the center top of the page it specifies that the hammer should support 3.25 lbs on a .38 special and 3.5 lbs on a .357. These weights of spring tension are the S&W spec which is intended to be reliable with all factory primers. The issue is that some .357 ammo uses magnum primers, and some magnum primers are harder than small pistol primers. Obviously, if you reload and you use the same primers for both types of ammo, then there is no difference. But if you want to use all types of factory ammo, then greater tension is recommended for .357.

The image in the thread above also shows how to measure the tension on the mainspring with a trigger gauge. This method can make the process of adjusting spring tension much more scientific.

To the OP, I wrote a long article about working with S&W revolver triggers that is intended for people who are getting started with these projects. You are clearly past the beginning point, but I will still offer a link to the article. The article is here:

Improving the trigger on Smith & Wesson Revolvers

And it is also discussed in this thread:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=584772

Good luck with your revolver. You have started down a road which I personally have found quite rewarding.

[arquebus357]

Bookmarked...

Many thanks SSJake

Yes I'm getting better at this. I'm not sitting on a milk crate in the bathtub anymore. When fitting the new sear (still don't know why they call it that) I fashioned a pin with a bit looser fit so I could grind a bit, reinstall and test. It took 5 fittings to get the sear to function properly without being too short.

[DPris]

Reducing rebound spring tension, either by clipping coils or installing a much lighter spring, affects trigger return.

Going too far begins to create a situation where the trigger will still return (usually), but does so sluggishly.

In a range toy, as long as you don't have to manually push the trigger forward to re-set position, it may not matter.

In a defensive gun it can, because if you need rapid-fire DA shooting, you can outrun the trigger & you can short-stroke it.

The S&W armorer's class I went to (LE oriented) gave us the minimum number of spring coils recommended by the factory for a duty gun.

When I went through several of our department 64s, I found one rebound slide spring that'd been cut a couple coils too far, and the trigger return was VERY weak.
It was quickly corrected.

That gun was carried by a sergeant who was something of a problem child & he never admitted it, but obviously somebody'd been inside it that thought he was doing some cool stuff in a kitchen-table "action job".

DON'T shorten the strain screw, DON'T back it out & leave it backed out, DON'T take the rebound slide spring down too far.
Those are the wrong ways to go in trying to do "action" jobs.
Denis

[DaleA]

so you don't have to play "chimp with a rock."

Now that's a funny phrase. I wish I would have said it. But not to worry, someday I will.

[Carmady]

Everything's gone down the tubes. Back in the good ol' days we had chimps in outer space.