I want to buy a Swiss

BoogieMan · June 6, 2016, 11:05 AM

I want to buy a Swiss straight pull while they are available. What is my best chance of increasing value or which is the most rare K31, K1896/11, or K1911?
Along the same line. What is the best made and most accurate of the bunch? I will be buying online surplus. Looks like I can have any one of them around $350. I think this is the time to buy. They will no doubt be $500 plus in the future.

**Mike Irwin** · June 6, 2016, 12:13 PM

The rarest (relative term) of that trio is probably the 1896/11.

The 1911s and the K31s seem to be equally common.

If you're going to shoot it, stay away from the 1896/11. they're not as durable as the later models.

The K31 is probably the most accurate, or has the most accuracy potential, as it has the shortest bolt length. With rear locking lugs that means a stiffer bolt and less flex on firing.

T. O'Heir · June 6, 2016, 12:44 PM

Your best chance of increasing value is to buy one in as close to mint(that's unfired and exactly as it came out of the factory) as you can afford, grease it up and vacuum seal it in plastic. Mind you, that guarantees absolutely nothing. Collector's are a quirky bunch.
Do the same thing with as many accessories(bayonets, etc.) as you can find and you will most likely find the percentage increase in value is much higher than that of the rifle.
Suggest you lay in a supply of ammo too. GP11 ball, mostly made in 1982, is running $239.92 per case of 480.
"...no doubt be $500 plus..." K-31's are already higher than that on Gunbroker. 1896/11's are running $320ish to $350ish.

g.willikers · June 6, 2016, 02:55 PM

For investment purposes, it's doubtful anyone will get rich from stashing the Swiss bolt actions.
Too many were made.

BoogieMan · June 6, 2016, 06:45 PM

I would never consider any of my guns investments to gain wealth. They are all enjoyed in low volume shooting and well kept. Not safe queens by any definition. But, I wish I had bought SKS or Mosin at $75-$80 when I could have. I can buy the Swiss at $350ish now. Prefer that over the $500-$800 that o think they will become.
From the info you guys were kind enough to share I think I will pop on a K31.

gwpercle · June 6, 2016, 07:37 PM

They're selling for $350.00 now !

I bought two K11's, 1911 Carbines , in 1968 for $19.95. Now I wish I had bought two dozen. Better investment than the stock market !

Gary

BoogieMan · June 7, 2016, 04:49 AM

I thought I could get a k31 for $350ish. I may have missed that window of opportunity. All the links I had for them at that price are sold out or dead links. If anyone knows of someone who may have matching k31 in stock, please let me know

tobnpr · June 8, 2016, 07:12 PM

Just got an email from Classic, K-31's for $320, cracked stocks though.

They state the cracks are generally in the handguards, which are common on old milsurps as the old, thin wood dries out- and can be repaired. They also don't affect "shootability" like a crack in the wrist, or tang would. But I'd clarify this (NO GO on a crack in those areas) before purchasing. Should be good shooters.

reddog81 · June 8, 2016, 10:32 PM

It looks like they got some K1911 carbines also. They also had some GP11 ammo but it's sold out now. there are a few other online sellers with the RUAG ammo for good prices. This stuff is supposedly match grade mil-surp ammo and very hard to find usually. I got some from Ammunition to go.

g.willikers · June 9, 2016, 09:27 AM

I was looking at a K-31 with a 4" crack through the hand guard section of the stock.
The replacement stocks for sale on the web seemed to need quite a lot of fitting and finishing.
So I passed.
Anyone had experience with how much effect such a stock crack in that area has?
Does the stock actually have to be replaced?
There seems to be contradicting opinions on the Swiss forums.

kilimanjaro · June 9, 2016, 09:41 AM

You can get a cracked stock repaired, but I'd just keep looking for a K31 in good condition, unless you're getting it for $200 or less.

Ernest T · June 9, 2016, 10:04 PM

The cracked stocks are a gamble. Samco was selling them a few years ago for less than $200, and some of those were very minor cracks that would never affect function. Don't know about the K31s Classic is selling with the cracked stocks? I've gotten some really nice rifles from Classic and some real dogs.

Classic does still have some K11s, and I recently picked up one of those, and it was in outstanding shape and mine came with a sling. The K11 was actually much more rare in numbers than the K31 (185,000 versus 530,000 produced). My K11 is as accurate as my K31 in my hands. The action on the K31 is a little more refined, but it is a very minor thing, in that all Swiss rifles tend to be smooth as silk. I also noted that my K11 from Classic came with a +. front sight, which makes it easier for shooting at 100 yards. Don't know if all of them come like this or I just got lucky.

For around $300 you cannot go wrong with a K11. Be sure to pick up a case of GP11 ammo as well.

tobnpr · June 10, 2016, 07:37 AM

Quote:

I was looking at a K-31 with a 4" crack through the hand guard section of the stock.
Anyone had experience with how much effect such a stock crack in that area has?

There's obviously no "stresses" acting on the wood in a handguard, unless it doesn't fit properly and might be forced or twisted into place, somehow. It's just a piece of wood lying over the barrel- but is obviously subject to a lot of heat; which combined with age on an old piece of wood has effects we'd expect.

I've repaired cracks in several handguards by degreasing the crack (opening it carefully without causing further damage- and also being careful not to damage the finish with the degreaser), masking it off and using epoxy (I use West System). No reason a good wood glue like Titebond won't work also.

Lightly wrap the handguard with surgical tubing to "clamp" the crack while the epoxy/glue cures.

Calfed · June 13, 2016, 03:24 PM

The least accurate is the K-11...shortest sight radius and lightest barrel profile.

The K-31 was designed to be as accurate as the 1911 and many shooters believe the Swiss almost succeeded in that effort.

The G1911 has a longer sight radius than the K-311 (although not tremendously longer). I have examples of all four (K-11, 96/11, G-1911 and K-31), and find the 96/11, the G1911 and the K-31 all to be very similar in accuracy.

The K-31 does have a stronger action than the earlier 1911 series rifles, but the 1911 series are strong enough when shooting GP11 or similar ammunition.

peggysue · June 14, 2016, 12:22 PM

Check out Simpson Ltd, IL
They are a gun importer Got my K 31 there. Mine has the unit paper under the butt plate. I looked them up and they are no longer under $300. Teir prices went up.
https://www.simpsonltd.com/

Gunplummer · June 17, 2016, 03:38 AM

Buy brass(Lots of) and dies at the same time.

tobnpr · June 17, 2016, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Check out Simpson Ltd, IL

I haven't bought anything from Simpson- far as I know, they are a consignment dealer- are they not?

Simpson is asking $100 for a freaking K-31 magazine!

Prices used to be what I considered market, but most of them look the same as the crazies fishing on Gunbroker. $800 for a Mosin-Nagant M38 carbine? You gotta be kidding me. But seems there's always one out there- and that's all you need to make the sale.

peggysue · June 18, 2016, 06:27 AM

Look at gun broker at the K31 prices...even Mosins. they are no longer low priced. Simpsons is also an importer. remember supplies from europe are drying up and Obama put bans on importing.

DennisCA · June 21, 2016, 05:45 PM

tobnpr - I bought a K11 Carbine (all-matching including the bayo) from Simpson Ltd a couple of years ago and am very happy with it!

Accurate? Hell yes - very accurate!

I think I paid $275 for it

5whiskey · June 21, 2016, 10:47 PM

A K31 is on my bucket list. I don't think you will find a nice, numbers matching, good stock specimen under $400.00 these days. Actually $400.00 would probably but a very good price. They will not get cheaper. I've seen my yugo 24/47 double in value over 7 years or so. I got it from jgsales for 170 bucks shipped and transfer fee... Numbers matching.

Ammo for the swiss is increasingly hard to come by. From what I understand reloading for it isn't exactly a simple task either.

Calfed · June 21, 2016, 10:56 PM

Reloading 7.5 x 55 is not much harder than for any other caliber.

The overall length for the K-31 just needs to be a little shorter than that listed in most reloading manuals.

Ernest T · June 22, 2016, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Ammo for the swiss is increasingly hard to come by. From what I understand reloading for it isn't exactly a simple task either.

The Swiss GP11 is hard to reload, because it it Berdan primed. Reloading Boxer primed 7.5x55 ammo is no harder than any other type.

The good news is that GP11 ammo is back in stock in many places, and selling for around .50 to .55 cents per round. As long as you can get it for this price, probably not worth trying to reload. GP11 is essentially match grade ammo. If you have or plan to have a Swiss rifle, now is a good time to stock up.

June 6, 2016, 11:05 AM	#1
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I want to buy a Swiss I want to buy a Swiss straight pull while they are available. What is my best chance of increasing value or which is the most rare K31, K1896/11, or K1911? Along the same line. What is the best made and most accurate of the bunch? I will be buying online surplus. Looks like I can have any one of them around $350. I think this is the time to buy. They will no doubt be $500 plus in the future. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

June 6, 2016, 12:13 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	The rarest (relative term) of that trio is probably the 1896/11. The 1911s and the K31s seem to be equally common. If you're going to shoot it, stay away from the 1896/11. they're not as durable as the later models. The K31 is probably the most accurate, or has the most accuracy potential, as it has the shortest bolt length. With rear locking lugs that means a stiffer bolt and less flex on firing. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 6, 2016, 12:44 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Your best chance of increasing value is to buy one in as close to mint(that's unfired and exactly as it came out of the factory) as you can afford, grease it up and vacuum seal it in plastic. Mind you, that guarantees absolutely nothing. Collector's are a quirky bunch. Do the same thing with as many accessories(bayonets, etc.) as you can find and you will most likely find the percentage increase in value is much higher than that of the rifle. Suggest you lay in a supply of ammo too. GP11 ball, mostly made in 1982, is running $239.92 per case of 480. "...no doubt be $500 plus..." K-31's are already higher than that on Gunbroker. 1896/11's are running $320ish to $350ish. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 6, 2016, 02:55 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	For investment purposes, it's doubtful anyone will get rich from stashing the Swiss bolt actions. Too many were made. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 6, 2016, 06:45 PM	#5
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I would never consider any of my guns investments to gain wealth. They are all enjoyed in low volume shooting and well kept. Not safe queens by any definition. But, I wish I had bought SKS or Mosin at $75-$80 when I could have. I can buy the Swiss at $350ish now. Prefer that over the $500-$800 that o think they will become. From the info you guys were kind enough to share I think I will pop on a K31. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

June 6, 2016, 07:37 PM	#6
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	They're selling for $350.00 now ! I bought two K11's, 1911 Carbines , in 1968 for $19.95. Now I wish I had bought two dozen. Better investment than the stock market ! Gary

June 7, 2016, 04:49 AM	#7
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I thought I could get a k31 for $350ish. I may have missed that window of opportunity. All the links I had for them at that price are sold out or dead links. If anyone knows of someone who may have matching k31 in stock, please let me know __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

June 8, 2016, 07:12 PM	#8
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Just got an email from Classic, K-31's for $320, cracked stocks though. They state the cracks are generally in the handguards, which are common on old milsurps as the old, thin wood dries out- and can be repaired. They also don't affect "shootability" like a crack in the wrist, or tang would. But I'd clarify this (NO GO on a crack in those areas) before purchasing. Should be good shooters. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

June 8, 2016, 10:32 PM	#9
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	It looks like they got some K1911 carbines also. They also had some GP11 ammo but it's sold out now. there are a few other online sellers with the RUAG ammo for good prices. This stuff is supposedly match grade mil-surp ammo and very hard to find usually. I got some from Ammunition to go.

June 9, 2016, 09:27 AM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	I was looking at a K-31 with a 4" crack through the hand guard section of the stock. The replacement stocks for sale on the web seemed to need quite a lot of fitting and finishing. So I passed. Anyone had experience with how much effect such a stock crack in that area has? Does the stock actually have to be replaced? There seems to be contradicting opinions on the Swiss forums. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 9, 2016, 09:41 AM	#11
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	You can get a cracked stock repaired, but I'd just keep looking for a K31 in good condition, unless you're getting it for $200 or less.

June 9, 2016, 10:04 PM	#12
Ernest T Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2015 Posts: 104	The cracked stocks are a gamble. Samco was selling them a few years ago for less than $200, and some of those were very minor cracks that would never affect function. Don't know about the K31s Classic is selling with the cracked stocks? I've gotten some really nice rifles from Classic and some real dogs. Classic does still have some K11s, and I recently picked up one of those, and it was in outstanding shape and mine came with a sling. The K11 was actually much more rare in numbers than the K31 (185,000 versus 530,000 produced). My K11 is as accurate as my K31 in my hands. The action on the K31 is a little more refined, but it is a very minor thing, in that all Swiss rifles tend to be smooth as silk. I also noted that my K11 from Classic came with a +. front sight, which makes it easier for shooting at 100 yards. Don't know if all of them come like this or I just got lucky. For around $300 you cannot go wrong with a K11. Be sure to pick up a case of GP11 ammo as well. Last edited by Ernest T; June 9, 2016 at 10:11 PM.

June 13, 2016, 03:24 PM	#14
Calfed Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Posts: 295	The least accurate is the K-11...shortest sight radius and lightest barrel profile. The K-31 was designed to be as accurate as the 1911 and many shooters believe the Swiss almost succeeded in that effort. The G1911 has a longer sight radius than the K-311 (although not tremendously longer). I have examples of all four (K-11, 96/11, G-1911 and K-31), and find the 96/11, the G1911 and the K-31 all to be very similar in accuracy. The K-31 does have a stronger action than the earlier 1911 series rifles, but the 1911 series are strong enough when shooting GP11 or similar ammunition.

June 14, 2016, 12:22 PM	#15
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Check out Simpson Ltd, IL They are a gun importer Got my K 31 there. Mine has the unit paper under the butt plate. I looked them up and they are no longer under $300. Teir prices went up. https://www.simpsonltd.com/ Last edited by peggysue; June 14, 2016 at 12:32 PM.

June 17, 2016, 03:38 AM	#16
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Buy brass(Lots of) and dies at the same time.

June 18, 2016, 06:27 AM	#18
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Look at gun broker at the K31 prices...even Mosins. they are no longer low priced. Simpsons is also an importer. remember supplies from europe are drying up and Obama put bans on importing.

June 21, 2016, 05:45 PM	#19
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	tobnpr - I bought a K11 Carbine (all-matching including the bayo) from Simpson Ltd a couple of years ago and am very happy with it! Accurate? Hell yes - very accurate! I think I paid $275 for it

June 21, 2016, 10:47 PM	#20
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,657	A K31 is on my bucket list. I don't think you will find a nice, numbers matching, good stock specimen under $400.00 these days. Actually $400.00 would probably but a very good price. They will not get cheaper. I've seen my yugo 24/47 double in value over 7 years or so. I got it from jgsales for 170 bucks shipped and transfer fee... Numbers matching. Ammo for the swiss is increasingly hard to come by. From what I understand reloading for it isn't exactly a simple task either.

June 21, 2016, 10:56 PM	#21
Calfed Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Posts: 295	Reloading 7.5 x 55 is not much harder than for any other caliber. The overall length for the K-31 just needs to be a little shorter than that listed in most reloading manuals.