Hand loading question

700cdl · January 19, 2011, 01:55 AM

I'm going ask a loaded question that has been in the back of my mind since I started hand loading over 25 years ago.
Why do most people that load for a handgun, load non jacketed bullets? I have never loaded with anything but jacketed bullets. When I decided to hand load it was primarily to achieve quality that exceeds that of factory. The amount of money I save by hand loading is only icing on the cake, in my opinion. My next question is, how much does a lead bullet cost. Use a common bullet like a 40 cal. to give me some idea. I'm sincere in that I have no idea about the economics of using lead.
On average I can load a box of 50 count .40 cal. JHP XTP for about $11.50 using a slow burning powder. My .357 mag. is a little cheaper to load for at about $10 per 50 rounds. There are better prices on jacketed bullets than what I get them for. I'm just a creature of habit and buy my supplies from the same shops as when I began this hobby. I've found some quality jacketed bullets at much lower prices from online retail sources for significantly less.
Please respond with some good average costs for the bullets only that have already been manufactured, not home made.

Lost Sheep · January 19, 2011, 02:23 AM

Copper plated, 500 count 45 caliber, 255 grain. $76 in Anchorage Alaska (shipping is a killer!) Sportsman's Warehouse.

Sorry, I don't have current pricing on .40 or .357, but I will venture a guess that you could save 30% or so by using copper plated instead of jacketed.

The trick to saving money is to find a cheap (lead or copper plated or inexpensive jacketed) bullet that duplicates the feel and point of impact of your "shoot for real" bullets. The practice bullets don't have to have the costly design features that make for good terminal ballistics performance.

So, for practice and target shooting, 30% cheaper, would you stock two (or four) different inventory items?

Lost Sheep

Saguaro Firearms · January 19, 2011, 02:28 AM

honestly i dont buy lead bullets, its not really worth the hassle and mess to me, i load alot of plated bullets, i can tell you i load 9mm for 35 dollars a case of 1000,and i have a blast casting, its enjoyable to me, but i dont buy lead bullets,

chris in va · January 19, 2011, 03:05 AM

One word...cost.

I can load 50 rounds of 45ACP for roughly $4 with my own cast bullets. I just don't see the need to buy someone else's bullets when I can make my own. Until lead supplies run out of course.

aaalaska · January 19, 2011, 03:17 AM

Cost, but since I cast my own, there is that personal touch.Kind of like tying your own flies, when it all comes together it's cause you did it all right.
Alex

m&p45acp10+1 · January 19, 2011, 04:50 AM

I cast my own lead. Price to load 1,000 .45 ACP is about $40 give or take up to $5 for variance in cost of primers. 1,000 of .41 Rem mag is in the $50 area. I load plated for 9mm since I shoot a stock Glock 26. Tholugh I only shoot maybe 150 to 200 rounds a month to stay familiar with it.

jmortimer · January 19, 2011, 09:27 AM

Some people actually perfer hard cast lead bullets with a large meplat. Easy on the barrel and hard on the target. Look at the "best " hunting ammunition Buffalo Bore, Garrett Cartridge, Doluble Tap and you will often see hard cast bullets with large meplats. So you save a bundle loading a 300 grain hard cast LBT WFN in your .45 Colt or .44 mag and at the same time have a load that will kill anything on earth. I like wadcutters for self-defense. All give deep srtright-line penetration.

Sevens · January 19, 2011, 09:39 AM

I do not cast my own... and "never say never", but I don't plan to take up casting any time soon.

But I do buy my share of cast lead bullets. I do it because of cost. There's more clean up to be done and I can only shoot them outdoors, but they work well for me in many of the calibers that I load.

I save a heap of dough over plated and jacketed.

I buy much more plated than jacketed and I shoot my share of those, also.

Rifleman1776 · January 19, 2011, 09:47 AM

I haven't bought any in a long time but when I loaded for my .44 mag. I bought hard cast lead bullets in quantity, 500 or a 1000 at a time in each weight. I loaded three weights. The cost per bullet was pennies compared to expensive jacketed. I used for target competition mostly and never wanted for better performance. I also carried for hunting with 245 gr. Keith style semi-wadcutters. Unfortunately, I never had a shot with them to comment on performance. But, I figured, if they were good enough for ole' Elmer they would be good enough for me.
Spending more than necessary to achieve desired results doesn't make sense to me.

kraigwy · January 19, 2011, 10:26 AM

I'll take the 40 cal the OP mentioned. I don't by lead, I have a endless supply of free wheel weights.

Got somebody who supplies me with once fired 40 cal brass (from LE practice)

So that leaves primers and powers. Primers are the big cost, about 3 cents each. Pistols don't use much powder, so @ 5 grns thats about 1 penny per load. Thats $1.96 per box of 50.

Brass in the biggest cost but pistol brass last a long time (unless you have a 40 S&W like mine that throws it two counties over). The last brass I bought was about 7 years ago and that was for 45 LC. When I retired I came away with a pretty hefty supply of 45 ACP, 38, 357s 'n such.

Also in the 90s I had a deal where I ended up with thousands of LP primers and 231 Powder FREE. So in reality I can shoot 45 ACPs for nothing.

What I'm trying to say, if you cast bullets, you can cut your cost to that of bulk 22s. The longer you live, the longer you stay in the shooting game, the longer you are in LE and/or the NG, the more contacts you make allowing you to keep your shooting down to next to nothing.

Casting is half the fun of reloading, reloading is half the fun of shooting. The cheaper you can get you ammo, the more you'll be able to shoot, the more you shoot the better (assuming you do it right) you shoot.

Its not that difficult to hit a target at 1000 yards with a Heavy Match M1A using carefully constructed ammo using the best components. It's a different matter to cast your own 500 grn slug, shoot it out of a rifle that's trajectory interferes with air traffic, and hit a 1000 yard gong in a black powder Creedmor Match.

I think one is missing a lot by not casting bullets.

maillemaker · January 19, 2011, 11:27 AM

I cast because my goal is to get my plinking ammo as cheap as possible.

If I purchase Oregon Trail Laser Cast .45 ACP lead bullets my per-cartridge cost is about $.16 per shot. If I cast my own from wheel weights, my cost is about $.08 per shot. Buying Winchester White-Box .45 ACP in a box of 50 runs about $.46 a shot.

Clark500 · January 19, 2011, 11:46 AM

Casters often refer to their bullets as "free", but there must be costs for consumables. Propane for smelting, electricity for the pot, bullet lube, $3-a-gallon gas to pick up the "free" wheelweights, etc. How much do these costs add to the finished product?

overkill0084 · January 19, 2011, 12:13 PM

Using premium jacketed bullets for plinking or punching paper seems like a waste of money to me. Cans & paper don't care what they are hit with. Cast and/or plated bullets are more than accurate enough for many applications. For specific needs where jacketed bullets are truely needed, (high velocity magnum loads, some specific hunting loads, etc) then I will spring the extra money as needs dictate. YMMV.

AlaskaMike · January 19, 2011, 12:41 PM

700cdl, most everyone else covered the cost issue, and my costs using cast bullets are in line with those previously mentioned. As in your case, cost is actually a relatively minor factor in my own handloading efforts. I will say though, that I shoot cast bullets for the same reason you use jacketed--that I want ammo that's better than factory. Lots of handloaders assume jacketed automatically equates to higher quality than cast, and that's a false assumption.

Cast bullets scare a lot of people who have no experience with them because they've been buffaloed by ignorant gun writers and "high-speed" tacticool types who are far more knowledgeable about black nylon and velcro than cast bullets. These people tend to claim that cast bullets are only good for leading up barrels and give poor accuracy, but when you ask them how much shooting they've actually done with cast bullets, they quickly change the subject.

To address your main question (why do most handgun loaders use non-jacketed bullets), I tend to see three main categories of shooting:

(recognizing that we're only talking handgun shooting here)
1. Target/Competition
2. Hunting
3. Self defense

The number one requirement of all three categories is accuracy. From my experience, cast bullets are superior than jacketed in that respect.

For target/competition, you want to be able to tailor bullet characteristics to suit conditions, and cast bullets excel here. You can vary the alloy, the sizing, the bullet lube and other characteristics to fine-tune for best performance. You can't do that with jacketed.

For hunting, you either want a bullet with a big meplat or a full caliber front band (depending on personal views), or you want expansion. Expansion is usually also number one on the list of requirements for self defense bullets. Cast bullets of the proper alloy beat jacketed here as well. The jacketed bullet industry's latest efforts with bonded jacket/plating is an attempt to produce consistent expansion without jacket separation. Cast hollowpoint bullets achieved this many decades ago. In addition, you can again vary alloy and hollowpoint depth to optimize expansion and penetration at your intended velocity. The best you can do with JHPs is change from one brand to another.

I also have to agree with Kraig 100%. Casting is half of the enjoyment I get from handloading. I understand that it's not for everyone though.

kraigwy · January 19, 2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Casters often refer to their bullets as "free", but there must be costs for consumables. Propane for smelting, electricity for the pot, bullet lube, $3-a-gallon gas to pick up the "free" wheelweights, etc. How much do these costs add to the finished product?

I knew this would pop up, so I'll address it.

I cast in my shop with its too cold to do anything else. The heat generated by the casting process helps heat the shop. Therefore the few pennys spent here would otherwise be spent in heating my shop.

I have three trucks, two cars, four tractors, two motorcycles, 4 trailers, and so on, I spend a lot of time at the tire shop, it dosn't cost a penny extra to throw a bucket of wheelweights into the truck. No differant then driving to the gun shop to buy jacketed bullets.

The time involved in casting would otherwise be spent watching the boob tube. Or the time we spend trying to justify not casting could be spent casting.

William T. Watts · January 19, 2011, 01:19 PM

I don't cast lead because of the risk of ingestion or breathing the fumes that may cause health issues later. William

maillemaker · January 19, 2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Casters often refer to their bullets as "free", but there must be costs for consumables. Propane for smelting, electricity for the pot, bullet lube, $3-a-gallon gas to pick up the "free" wheelweights, etc. How much do these costs add to the finished product?

This is true. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to buy the lead (unless you are lucky enough to get it for free), you have to pay for the energy to melt it. And of course casting, like all reloading, costs your time.

But to me, these are "free" expenses. When I buy bullets, it's just a plain old expense. I have to give up the money, and in exchange all I get is a product.

But when I spend money to melt and cast my own lead bullets, that's money I'm paying for an experience. In other words, it's money paid for entertainment, not just an object. So the bullets are still free (or nearly so) - I just paid some money for some entertainment, and happened to get free bullets as a bonus.

Steve

AlaskaMike · January 19, 2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

I don't cast lead because of the risk of ingestion or breathing the fumes that may cause health issues later.

I get around this by not eating my lead, and I don't stick my nose into the pot and inhale.

Seriously, even a modest amount of research will reveal that the dangers of lead exposure from casting bullets is way overblown. Most of us get our blood lead level tested periodically, but that's mostly for peace of mind. When I had mine tested late last year it was 3 mg/dL where normal is 0 - 20.

You presumably use common sense in the other aspects of handloading, right? You don't eat, drink or smoke while handloading and you wash your hands when you're done, right? If you use the same common sense when casting you'll never have any problems.

parttime · January 19, 2011, 03:46 PM

I get more lead in my system by putting on and taking off sinkers from my grand daughters fishing line than I would from casting.

After all the hype from the EPA, the media and other sources the bottom line is- normal hygene and DON'T EAT LEAD!!!

brickeyee · January 19, 2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

I don't cast lead because of the risk of ingestion or breathing the fumes that may cause health issues later.

As long as you take reasonable precautions the lead vapor exposure is very small.

Do NOT use a torch of ANY type to speed up melting, and do NOT set the lead pot higher than required.

Those things and washing your hands is all you really need to do.

moxie · January 19, 2011, 04:18 PM

Cost, pure and simple. Just for comparison I just looked at Midway's website for .40 cal. and they want $17.99 for 100 Hornady 155 gr. The Meister cast 180s are 49.99 for 500. So that's $18 vs. $10 which is a big difference to me. And I can get better deals than that on cast at other sites like friendswoodbullet.com where you can get 500 180s for 34.20. No comparison.

Edward429451 · January 19, 2011, 04:29 PM

I crunched all the numbers for casting a few years ago. A full 30 LB jug of propane, Scraped the lube out of a boolit and weighed it, kept track of the time the lube heater was on divided by KWhs and so forth. I casted until I was out of propane and did the math.

The difference in cost for lead boolits versus jacketed is no contest. Copper jacketed bullets do not perform as much better than the cast to in any way justify the cost difference.

The cast are about a penny a piece to produce. Maybe thats double now?

**Unclenick** · January 19, 2011, 04:31 PM

Lead exposure in general is overblown. Lots of civil war veterans lived long lives with pieces of lead in them. It's the water and acid-soluble compounds of lead that present a hazard to inhalation and ingestion, and there the main culprit for shooters is primer smoke and residue. It has been shown that by far the largest soluble lead compound concentrations a shooter sees are around dry vibratory case cleaning gear and dry media separating gear. It's in the dust. Unless you shoot NT loads exclusively, if you clean and separate cases using dry media, you already have hundreds of times the hazard exposure to lead that casting will expose you to. Same with breathing gun smoke. There's more hazardous form lead in it than in casting fumes.

I can't say I get better accuracy from lead than jacketed bullets, but you can make them do awfully well. Jacketed match bullets, in particular, are very well made these days. However, the cost of copper has gone through the roof, and if you've priced any good quality jacketed bullets these days, you'll probably have suffered sticker shock. Even commercial cast bullets cost twice what they used to. A lot of 200 grain SWC's seem to be around $70/1000. But, that compares to $150-$180/1000 for JSWC's. So, 2.2-2.5 times the cost for that jacket. The commercial lead bullets at that price will not shoot as accurately for me as my own cast bullets, but if you don't have time to cast they do well enough.

Clark500 · January 19, 2011, 04:35 PM

The OP stated:

Quote:

I'm sincere in that I have no idea about the economics of using lead.

Hence the question:

Quote:

Casters often refer to their bullets as "free", but there must be costs for consumables. Propane for smelting, electricity for the pot, bullet lube, $3-a-gallon gas to pick up the "free" wheelweights, etc. How much do these costs add to the finished product?

Kraigwy stated:

Quote:

I cast in my shop with its too cold to do anything else. The heat generated by the casting process helps heat the shop. Therefore the few pennys spent here would otherwise be spent in heating my shop.

I have three trucks, two cars, four tractors, two motorcycles, 4 trailers, and so on, I spend a lot of time at the tire shop, it dosn't cost a penny extra to throw a bucket of wheelweights into the truck. No differant then driving to the gun shop to buy jacketed bullets.

The time involved in casting would otherwise be spent watching the boob tube. Or the time we spend trying to justify not casting could be spent casting.

The OP may live in sunny Florida, ride a bike and love the boob tube. Who knows? Just trying to provide info.

zippy13 · January 19, 2011, 04:40 PM

Cost issues aside, there's the self satisfaction of loading with home cast bullets. It's akin to model making: some folks use kits and others are scratch builders. Loading with commercial bullets is like building a model from a kit -- someone else makes all the parts, you just assemble them. With home casts you have choices not available to the reloader using commercial bullets.

January 19, 2011, 01:55 AM	#1
700cdl Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2010 Posts: 216	Hand loading question I'm going ask a loaded question that has been in the back of my mind since I started hand loading over 25 years ago. Why do most people that load for a handgun, load non jacketed bullets? I have never loaded with anything but jacketed bullets. When I decided to hand load it was primarily to achieve quality that exceeds that of factory. The amount of money I save by hand loading is only icing on the cake, in my opinion. My next question is, how much does a lead bullet cost. Use a common bullet like a 40 cal. to give me some idea. I'm sincere in that I have no idea about the economics of using lead. On average I can load a box of 50 count .40 cal. JHP XTP for about $11.50 using a slow burning powder. My .357 mag. is a little cheaper to load for at about $10 per 50 rounds. There are better prices on jacketed bullets than what I get them for. I'm just a creature of habit and buy my supplies from the same shops as when I began this hobby. I've found some quality jacketed bullets at much lower prices from online retail sources for significantly less. Please respond with some good average costs for the bullets only that have already been manufactured, not home made.

January 19, 2011, 02:23 AM	#2
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	I estimate 30% Copper plated, 500 count 45 caliber, 255 grain. $76 in Anchorage Alaska (shipping is a killer!) Sportsman's Warehouse. Sorry, I don't have current pricing on .40 or .357, but I will venture a guess that you could save 30% or so by using copper plated instead of jacketed. The trick to saving money is to find a cheap (lead or copper plated or inexpensive jacketed) bullet that duplicates the feel and point of impact of your "shoot for real" bullets. The practice bullets don't have to have the costly design features that make for good terminal ballistics performance. So, for practice and target shooting, 30% cheaper, would you stock two (or four) different inventory items? Lost Sheep

January 19, 2011, 02:28 AM	#3
Saguaro Firearms Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: southern arizona Posts: 66	why? honestly i dont buy lead bullets, its not really worth the hassle and mess to me, i load alot of plated bullets, i can tell you i load 9mm for 35 dollars a case of 1000,and i have a blast casting, its enjoyable to me, but i dont buy lead bullets,

January 19, 2011, 04:50 AM	#6
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I cast my own lead. Price to load 1,000 .45 ACP is about $40 give or take up to $5 for variance in cost of primers. 1,000 of .41 Rem mag is in the $50 area. I load plated for 9mm since I shoot a stock Glock 26. Tholugh I only shoot maybe 150 to 200 rounds a month to stay familiar with it. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

January 19, 2011, 09:39 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I do not cast my own... and "never say never", but I don't plan to take up casting any time soon. But I do buy my share of cast lead bullets. I do it because of cost. There's more clean up to be done and I can only shoot them outdoors, but they work well for me in many of the calibers that I load. I save a heap of dough over plated and jacketed. I buy much more plated than jacketed and I shoot my share of those, also. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 19, 2011, 03:05 AM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	One word...cost. I can load 50 rounds of 45ACP for roughly $4 with my own cast bullets. I just don't see the need to buy someone else's bullets when I can make my own. Until lead supplies run out of course.

January 19, 2011, 03:17 AM	#5
aaalaska Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: Palmer Ak Posts: 319	Cost, but since I cast my own, there is that personal touch.Kind of like tying your own flies, when it all comes together it's cause you did it all right. Alex

January 19, 2011, 09:27 AM	#7
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Some people actually perfer hard cast lead bullets with a large meplat. Easy on the barrel and hard on the target. Look at the "best " hunting ammunition Buffalo Bore, Garrett Cartridge, Doluble Tap and you will often see hard cast bullets with large meplats. So you save a bundle loading a 300 grain hard cast LBT WFN in your .45 Colt or .44 mag and at the same time have a load that will kill anything on earth. I like wadcutters for self-defense. All give deep srtright-line penetration.

January 19, 2011, 09:47 AM	#9
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	I haven't bought any in a long time but when I loaded for my .44 mag. I bought hard cast lead bullets in quantity, 500 or a 1000 at a time in each weight. I loaded three weights. The cost per bullet was pennies compared to expensive jacketed. I used for target competition mostly and never wanted for better performance. I also carried for hunting with 245 gr. Keith style semi-wadcutters. Unfortunately, I never had a shot with them to comment on performance. But, I figured, if they were good enough for ole' Elmer they would be good enough for me. Spending more than necessary to achieve desired results doesn't make sense to me.

January 19, 2011, 10:26 AM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I'll take the 40 cal the OP mentioned. I don't by lead, I have a endless supply of free wheel weights. Got somebody who supplies me with once fired 40 cal brass (from LE practice) So that leaves primers and powers. Primers are the big cost, about 3 cents each. Pistols don't use much powder, so @ 5 grns thats about 1 penny per load. Thats $1.96 per box of 50. Brass in the biggest cost but pistol brass last a long time (unless you have a 40 S&W like mine that throws it two counties over). The last brass I bought was about 7 years ago and that was for 45 LC. When I retired I came away with a pretty hefty supply of 45 ACP, 38, 357s 'n such. Also in the 90s I had a deal where I ended up with thousands of LP primers and 231 Powder FREE. So in reality I can shoot 45 ACPs for nothing. What I'm trying to say, if you cast bullets, you can cut your cost to that of bulk 22s. The longer you live, the longer you stay in the shooting game, the longer you are in LE and/or the NG, the more contacts you make allowing you to keep your shooting down to next to nothing. Casting is half the fun of reloading, reloading is half the fun of shooting. The cheaper you can get you ammo, the more you'll be able to shoot, the more you shoot the better (assuming you do it right) you shoot. Its not that difficult to hit a target at 1000 yards with a Heavy Match M1A using carefully constructed ammo using the best components. It's a different matter to cast your own 500 grn slug, shoot it out of a rifle that's trajectory interferes with air traffic, and hit a 1000 yard gong in a black powder Creedmor Match. I think one is missing a lot by not casting bullets. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 19, 2011, 11:27 AM	#11
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I cast because my goal is to get my plinking ammo as cheap as possible. If I purchase Oregon Trail Laser Cast .45 ACP lead bullets my per-cartridge cost is about $.16 per shot. If I cast my own from wheel weights, my cost is about $.08 per shot. Buying Winchester White-Box .45 ACP in a box of 50 runs about $.46 a shot.

January 19, 2011, 11:46 AM	#12
Clark500 Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2010 Posts: 168	Casters often refer to their bullets as "free", but there must be costs for consumables. Propane for smelting, electricity for the pot, bullet lube, $3-a-gallon gas to pick up the "free" wheelweights, etc. How much do these costs add to the finished product?

January 19, 2011, 12:13 PM	#13
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	Using premium jacketed bullets for plinking or punching paper seems like a waste of money to me. Cans & paper don't care what they are hit with. Cast and/or plated bullets are more than accurate enough for many applications. For specific needs where jacketed bullets are truely needed, (high velocity magnum loads, some specific hunting loads, etc) then I will spring the extra money as needs dictate. YMMV. __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

January 19, 2011, 12:41 PM	#14
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	700cdl, most everyone else covered the cost issue, and my costs using cast bullets are in line with those previously mentioned. As in your case, cost is actually a relatively minor factor in my own handloading efforts. I will say though, that I shoot cast bullets for the same reason you use jacketed--that I want ammo that's better than factory. Lots of handloaders assume jacketed automatically equates to higher quality than cast, and that's a false assumption. Cast bullets scare a lot of people who have no experience with them because they've been buffaloed by ignorant gun writers and "high-speed" tacticool types who are far more knowledgeable about black nylon and velcro than cast bullets. These people tend to claim that cast bullets are only good for leading up barrels and give poor accuracy, but when you ask them how much shooting they've actually done with cast bullets, they quickly change the subject. To address your main question (why do most handgun loaders use non-jacketed bullets), I tend to see three main categories of shooting: (recognizing that we're only talking handgun shooting here) 1. Target/Competition 2. Hunting 3. Self defense The number one requirement of all three categories is accuracy. From my experience, cast bullets are superior than jacketed in that respect. For target/competition, you want to be able to tailor bullet characteristics to suit conditions, and cast bullets excel here. You can vary the alloy, the sizing, the bullet lube and other characteristics to fine-tune for best performance. You can't do that with jacketed. For hunting, you either want a bullet with a big meplat or a full caliber front band (depending on personal views), or you want expansion. Expansion is usually also number one on the list of requirements for self defense bullets. Cast bullets of the proper alloy beat jacketed here as well. The jacketed bullet industry's latest efforts with bonded jacket/plating is an attempt to produce consistent expansion without jacket separation. Cast hollowpoint bullets achieved this many decades ago. In addition, you can again vary alloy and hollowpoint depth to optimize expansion and penetration at your intended velocity. The best you can do with JHPs is change from one brand to another. I also have to agree with Kraig 100%. Casting is half of the enjoyment I get from handloading. I understand that it's not for everyone though.

January 19, 2011, 01:19 PM	#16
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I don't cast lead because of the risk of ingestion or breathing the fumes that may cause health issues later. William

January 19, 2011, 03:46 PM	#19
parttime Member Join Date: August 25, 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 82	I get more lead in my system by putting on and taking off sinkers from my grand daughters fishing line than I would from casting. After all the hype from the EPA, the media and other sources the bottom line is- normal hygene and DON'T EAT LEAD!!! __________________ The wants of the many DO NOT outweigh my needs.

January 19, 2011, 04:18 PM	#21
moxie Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 513	Cost, pure and simple. Just for comparison I just looked at Midway's website for .40 cal. and they want $17.99 for 100 Hornady 155 gr. The Meister cast 180s are 49.99 for 500. So that's $18 vs. $10 which is a big difference to me. And I can get better deals than that on cast at other sites like friendswoodbullet.com where you can get 500 180s for 34.20. No comparison. __________________ If you want to shoot...shoot...don't talk! Tuco USAF Munitions 1969-1992 RVN 1972-1973

January 19, 2011, 04:29 PM	#22
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I crunched all the numbers for casting a few years ago. A full 30 LB jug of propane, Scraped the lube out of a boolit and weighed it, kept track of the time the lube heater was on divided by KWhs and so forth. I casted until I was out of propane and did the math. The difference in cost for lead boolits versus jacketed is no contest. Copper jacketed bullets do not perform as much better than the cast to in any way justify the cost difference. The cast are about a penny a piece to produce. Maybe thats double now?

January 19, 2011, 04:31 PM	#23
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Lead exposure in general is overblown. Lots of civil war veterans lived long lives with pieces of lead in them. It's the water and acid-soluble compounds of lead that present a hazard to inhalation and ingestion, and there the main culprit for shooters is primer smoke and residue. It has been shown that by far the largest soluble lead compound concentrations a shooter sees are around dry vibratory case cleaning gear and dry media separating gear. It's in the dust. Unless you shoot NT loads exclusively, if you clean and separate cases using dry media, you already have hundreds of times the hazard exposure to lead that casting will expose you to. Same with breathing gun smoke. There's more hazardous form lead in it than in casting fumes. I can't say I get better accuracy from lead than jacketed bullets, but you can make them do awfully well. Jacketed match bullets, in particular, are very well made these days. However, the cost of copper has gone through the roof, and if you've priced any good quality jacketed bullets these days, you'll probably have suffered sticker shock. Even commercial cast bullets cost twice what they used to. A lot of 200 grain SWC's seem to be around $70/1000. But, that compares to $150-$180/1000 for JSWC's. So, 2.2-2.5 times the cost for that jacket. The commercial lead bullets at that price will not shoot as accurately for me as my own cast bullets, but if you don't have time to cast they do well enough. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 19, 2011, 04:40 PM	#25
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Cost issues aside, there's the self satisfaction of loading with home cast bullets. It's akin to model making: some folks use kits and others are scratch builders. Loading with commercial bullets is like building a model from a kit -- someone else makes all the parts, you just assemble them. With home casts you have choices not available to the reloader using commercial bullets.