Beretta Pico 380 is +P rated?

[PSP]

BOOGIE the oily,
While I agree with your general train of thought and conclusion of the robust nature of the Pico, we must be clear that the Pico is made is the U.S.A. and not Italy. There is no CIP proof cartouche on the gun.

[BOOGIE the oily]

Oops. I thought the company proofed all its guns, regardless of their origin. Sorry. My bad.

[Laz]

I don’t think SAAMI publishes it but I *think* a proof load in the US is generally 150% of the SAAMI maximum. If that is so, it would make a proof load for .380 acp 32,250 psi. I don’t think that in any way means a Pistol is “rated” for anywhere near that kind of pressure.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Here is a link with a few manufacturers of 380 ammo. Some clearly publish a Plus P rating for their ammo. I see that Buffaloe Bore has the same bullet and for two different loads, one standard and one Plus P. Each producing different FPS and muzzle foot lbs.
As I mentioned, Precision One 380 also now has a Plus P round.

Years ago, I shot some ammo that was clearly a Hot loaded round. I knew instantly it was, and in five rounds completely cracked the frame of the aluminum gun I was shooting. I put the ammo aside and never used it, however, I later pulled it out and shot the remainder thru the Pico with no problems and of course less recoil. Maybe just a coincidence, I do not know. Regardless, I now will only buy a pocket gun made of stainless steel over Aluminum.
Here is the chart. I would look at the Buffalo Bore JHP 90 gr standard load vs Plus P.
I make no claims to whether they are truthful or disingenuous. I make no claims that one is better than the other. I am simply posting the link.
My Personal opinion and repeat, only my Personal opinion is, If a manufacture say's to not shoot Plus P ammo then I won't regardless of if Sammi has a listing or not.
If they state that I can shoot it, then I have no problem with ammo listed in the chart below, and would only shoot it infrequently and not as a standard range ammo.

http://www.ballistics101.com/380_acp.php

[Hal]

Nice list Carl!

[Laz]

In all fairness, I think we should note that Ruger does specifically warn against shooting Plus P ammo in the LCP.

[mete]

In the early days of the 380 makers weren't sure that the gun could be blowback or that it should be locked breech.
I once had a Mauser HSc ,blowback, Remington M51,delayed blowback , and a Cz 24, locked breech .

[Cheapshooter]

Some clearly publish a Plus P rating for their ammo.

No they don't. Some, or probably most boutique ammo producers falsely use the term +P as advertising hype trying to convince the unknowing that they can turn their 380 into a 9MM power house. They are either stretching the pressure to the absolute SAAMI limit, or producung ammo beyond industry standard pressure.

About SAAMI
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. SAAMI was founded in 1926 at the request of the federal government and tasked with:
Creating and publishing industry standards for safety, interchangeability, reliability and quality
Coordinating technical data
Promoting safe and responsible firearms use
SAAMI Strategic Goals
Be the leading global technical resource regarding firearms and ammunition manufacturers' issues.
Maintain technically correct standards for terminology, performance, interchangeability and safety.
Create a forum for the introduction of appropriate new standards and policies.
Publicize pertinent SAAMI policies and standards.
Increase our public visibility as "the experts" in our fields.
Our Mission
To Create and Promulgate Technical, Performance, and Safety Standards for Commerce in Firearms, Ammunition, and Components

[BOOGIE the oily]

Whether manufacturers make +P ammo or not, one could easily reload +P ammo at home, it's just simple math.
My question would be (and I apologize for the hijack): being that a +P 9mm round is pretty much filled to the brim with powder, is there enough room in a .380 case to make a +P round?

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by mete

In the early days of the 380 makers weren't sure that the gun could be blowback or that it should be locked breech.

Methinks it has to do with knowledge of the engineering trade-offs rather than an inability to decide.

Blowback firearms are mechanically simpler and therefore cheaper to manufacture. The modern movement towards locked-breech .380s has to do with minimizing size while mitigating felt recoil and slide operating force; locked-breech operation tends to reduce the latter two.

Originally Posted by BOOGIE the oily

Whether manufacturers make +P ammo or not, one could easily reload +P ammo at home, it's just simple math.

Ummm, exceeding published load data seems to me to be a recipe for a damaged firearm and potential personal injury!

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!!

[Cheapshooter]

My question would be (and I apologize for the hijack): being that a +P 9mm round is pretty much filled to the brim with powder, is there enough room in a .380 case to make a +P round?

So you have pulled down a factory 9MM to measure the powder?
Depending on the powder, you can fit enough powder in a 380 case to turn your gun into a bomb!

[Carmady]

it's just simple math

1 mistake = 0 fingers

[BOOGIE the oily]

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

So you have pulled down a factory 9MM to measure the powder?
Depending on the powder, you can fit enough powder in a 380 case to turn your gun into a bomb!

I did, actually. A Magtech FMJ.
Either way, that's what I wanted to know. Thank you. I wasn't sure, even with the .380 being a lower pressure round than the 9mm, that there was enough room.

@ Carmady: if you end up with 0 fingers, you didn't make one mistake, you made 2. The second one being to try an untested round holding the gun with your hands.

[dgludwig]

Nice list Carl!

I agree with Hal-very helpful information.

[otasan]

The only way to get +p .380s is to carefully reload your .380 cartridges

[dogtown tom]

otasan The only way to get +p .380s is to carefully reload your .380 cartridges

Unbelievable.

[otasan]

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Unbelievable.

I am just unaware of any +p .380 factory rounds

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by otasan

I am just unaware of any +p .380 factory rounds

Underwood and Buffalo Bore market them.

[Cheapshooter]

Here is a link with a few manufacturers of 380 ammo. Some clearly publish a Plus P rating for their ammo.

+P claim, as in advertising hype, or warning that their ammo exceeds SAAMI recognized safe pressure.
All but one, Magtech, being boutique ammo producers targeting people that bought the wrong gun for what they want in the first place. If SAAMI recognised 380 isn't powerful enough, get a 9MM.
As to 380acp guns "rated" for so called +P ammo, and that being a sign of the "robust", all metal Pico, The oft scorned, and maligned "plastic" Kel-Tec P3at is also rated for +P as per their owner's Manual.
Not dissing the Pico, it is a great looking little gun.
Might get one myself some day if the price is right, and I have the often recurring new gun urge.