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Old August 31, 2017, 11:16 AM   #1
jcolon95
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Rifle scope

I have a ruger american predator in 308. I have a vortex crossfire ii 4×12-44. I would like to eventually shoot out to 1000 yards when i am ready. I would like to put a better scope that wont break my bank. I really only target shoot at the range.Any suggestions?
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Old August 31, 2017, 03:29 PM   #2
bill 13
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Natchez has the nikon monarch5 5x25x50 for 469.00.I just got mine in yesterday.
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Old August 31, 2017, 04:10 PM   #3
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Swfa ss great for the money
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Old August 31, 2017, 04:37 PM   #4
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It is 4-12X50 and 5-25X50, not 4X12-50 and not 5X25X50. When you substitute the actual words the X and - symbols are shorthand for you'll understand.

4-12X50 reads 4 times to 12 times magnification with a 50mm objective.
4X12-50 would read fixed 4 times magnification, with a 12mm to 50mm variable objective.
5X25X50 is a scope with only 5 times magnification and 25 times magnification with nothing in between and a 50mm objective.


The scope you have will work for now, when you have the skills to shoot at 1000 yards you'll have a much better idea which scope to use. Start saving because it will cost at least double what you paid for the rifle. And there is nothing wrong with your rifle. It is a lot easier and cheaper to make a 1000 yard rifle than a 1000 yard scope.
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Old August 31, 2017, 06:11 PM   #5
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4 - 12 x 50 reads 4 to 12 power with a 50mm objective lens.
4x12x50 is an error but might be correct as 4x - 12x 50
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Old August 31, 2017, 06:22 PM   #6
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What facility/land is available?
Start handloading as you need extremely consistent ammunition for when you have the skills to dope conditions beyond a few hundred yards.

If you want or need to range your targets you'll probably prefer first focal plane type scope instead of the second focal plane you now have. SFP does not obscure the center of the target as much which is preferable when shooting known distance. I don't believe you'll find 12x adequate with that optic. It would be difficult to see even a two-minute plus target (24") at that range because of the lack of clarity of the glass- and no one shoots target at that range with a 12x.

You'll want 24x and more for the top end on a variable, just dial it down when conditions require (mirage).
Nightforce Benchrest models are 8-32 and 12-42 to give you an idea...

More magnification is always better for when conditions permit.
Aim small, miss small.

Trying to see a 12" gong at 1000 yards with a 10x is akin to hitting a quarter dollar at 100 yards with zero magnification. Good luck with that....
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Old August 31, 2017, 08:37 PM   #7
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Would you think of a fixed powder , if so Weaver T24 or T36 .
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Old September 1, 2017, 11:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobnpr
Trying to see a 12" gong at 1000 yards with a 10x is akin to hitting a quarter dollar at 100 yards with zero magnification. Good luck with that....
No, it would be the same as looking at a quarter at 100 yards at 10X. Not ideal, but quite doable.

I have no problem seeing a 18" wide IPSC target at 1000 yards with a 3.5X PU scope, a 12" plate with 10X would be easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cw308
Would you think of a fixed powder , if so Weaver T24 or T36 .
I have a fixed 36X Leupold on a .243 Varmint rifle, and it is not ideal. Field of View is tiny, takes a lot of practice to find the target quickly, and the eye relief sweet spot is pretty small, if your head is not in EXACTLY the right spot, you cant see a damn thing. Mirage can also be a problem, and unlike a quality variable, you can't back it down a bit to get a clearer view.

Fixed power scopes were an advantage back before manufacturing advancements made variables more reliable.

You can get your feet wet with the scope you have, you just may need to get a tapered base to get enough elevation to get to 1000.

Leupold is the easy button for that, you can get rings and the tapered base for about $50:

$50 for bases and rings and you are good to go for as far as you can see.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/36...nge-scope-base

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/13...standard-rings

They are not "Tacticool" but they work fine.
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Old September 1, 2017, 12:19 PM   #9
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A Ruger American Predator is a hunting rifle with an 18" barrel. Not a target rifle. Using it to shoot targets at 1,000 yards will frustrate the Hades out of you. Be just dandy for deer out to 300 though.
And a 4×12-44 is too much scope for a deer rifle. Mostly about the weight (17.2 ounces) and 12X having just 8.4 feet field of view at 100 yards.
Like jmr40 says, it'll do for now, but if you want to shoot targets at 1,000 yards, you need a better rifle.
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Old September 1, 2017, 05:45 PM   #10
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instead of buying a scope, bu ammo and use what you have. when your skills exceed your equipment then start looking.
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Old September 2, 2017, 06:32 AM   #11
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"Like jmr40 says, it'll do for now, but if you want to shoot targets at 1,000 yards, you need a better rifle."

All the current hype about "shooting 1000 yards" is fun but not do-able for most and most certainly a lofty goal using "budget equipment". I have thousand yard capable rifles and they weren't cheap. Unfortunately, age has dulled my skills and that long range capability is only half what it once was.
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Old September 2, 2017, 07:30 PM   #12
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All the current hype about "shooting 1000 yards" is fun but not do-able for most and most certainly a lofty goal using "budget equipment". I have thousand yard capable rifles and they weren't cheap.
Really depends on what he is trying to do, doesn't it.

Here is a news flash, pretty much any centerfire rifle larger than 6mm made since the introduction of the 8×50mmR Lebel in 1886 is a "thousand yard capable rifle" Obvious exceptions exist, like the .30-30, but most of them will get there just fine.

The Ruger American Predator is certainly capable, provided he has a load that stays supersonic over 1000 yards. It has a heavier barrel, so it should tolerate long strings better than a traditional sporter, but obviously not as well as a heavy target rifle. All he needs is anough elevation on his scopt to get there, which I provided the $50 solution for above.
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Old September 5, 2017, 06:21 AM   #13
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I would suggest staying with your current scope.
It is surely capable of getting you to 1000 yards.
If need be put a 20 MOA base on it.

Note, the OP said getting to 1000 yards, not that he's entering 1000 yards benchrest competition. HUGE difference.
I don't think we need to worry about strings.
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Old September 6, 2017, 03:44 PM   #14
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Old September 17, 2017, 03:01 PM   #15
jcolon95
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Thank you everyone for your information. I am a former marine and was able to put 10 shots on a dog target center with a m16 a1 with iron sight at 500 yards. So i feel i am capable of a 1000 yard shot but the eyes are not as young as they use to be. Not really looking to compete except maybe with my self . As long as the scope can do the job and not break the band will be enough for me.
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Old September 18, 2017, 06:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
You'll want 24x and more for the top end on a variable, just dial it down when conditions require (mirage).
Nightforce Benchrest models are 8-32 and 12-42 to give you an idea...
I have the 8 to 32 NF in a Target dot.

I wanted the 42 but the 32 was already breaking the bank beyond my pain limits.

Shot a 300 meter range a while back and did well with my 06 (sub 1/2 MOA)

When I could I was full up o n the 32.

Light conditions and mirage at times I did have to dial back.

So the poster for that has a good handle on it me thinks.

At one time I could shoot a nats eye out at 25 yards with a pistol (iron sight)

Now its a huge struggle to get 2.5 inches as the blurr is bad.

Funny thing, nothing gets better or easier as you get older.
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Old September 18, 2017, 07:05 PM   #17
jcolon95
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thank you RC20 i will check that out.
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Old September 18, 2017, 08:36 PM   #18
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A "middle of the road" hunting scope on a price point hunting rifle at 1000 yards?????
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Old September 18, 2017, 09:27 PM   #19
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A "middle of the road" hunting scope on a price point hunting rifle at 1000 yards?????
Yes.

Again, not it really depends on what he is wanting to do. I have shot 1000 yards with a Mosin Nagant with a 3.5x scope. I guarantee you his American Predator is more accurate them my Mosin, and his scope has more power and better glass than something made by the Soviets at the height of WW2.

He is not going to win any benchrest group size records, be if he is wanting to ring steel at 1000 yards, or even shoot a F-Class match, that rile and scope are capable, provided he has the elevation to get on target, which, as I mentioned, can be fixed for about $50.
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Old September 19, 2017, 06:36 AM   #20
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Like a rifle. A scope is only as good as its prospective buyers willingness to open his wallet.

I myself have never considered anything other than Leupold brand since day one.
I do promote and have always believed all those Far East made scopes so hurriedly put together Blue Light Specials in a handsome looking box. But~~ that's just me.
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Old September 20, 2017, 07:09 AM   #21
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I've heard too many good things about this SWFA that I ordered one....haven't had it to the range yet, but I think I didn't go wrong.....

https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-16x42-tactical-riflescope.html

Jerry
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Old September 20, 2017, 08:58 AM   #22
cptjack
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got a luppy 6 x 18 x40 on eBay 350.00 a 500.00 scope at cabbalas
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Old September 20, 2017, 09:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
A scope is only as good as its prospective buyers willingness to open his wallet.

I myself have never considered anything other than Leupold brand since day one.
In the past, I would agree with you. But I expect a big part of the problem is people have long memories. It wasn't that long ago that "cheap" really did mean "crap" when it came to optics.

I think quality control and manufacturing capabilities have come a long way in the past ~20 years. The "cheap" scopes of today are hell and gone better than the "cheap" scopes of the 1980s, and are by most accounts pretty decent.

Cheap within reason of course, I would say anything above the $100 price point would be adequate for most hunters, who zero the scope and then leave it alone. For a LR shooter that spins the elevation knob a lot, you want target turrets, and you should open your wallet a little more.

I have a Leupold 6.5-20 target scope, I also have a Vortex Crossfire 6-24, and the Leupold seems to have better glass, the Vortex is perfectly workable scope with most of the features of the Leupold, and cost less than 1/4 the price of the Leupold.
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Old September 20, 2017, 11:20 AM   #24
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come on guys,,,going to 1000 isnt that tuff,,,hitting on the other hand,,,i have been there many times,,with black powder,,,45-90 and peep sights,,,BPCG,,,just need lots of elevation and windage

my 308 wears a 20min rail and a 30mm tube 8-32x50 scope

like emcon5 said,,, you will more than likely need a rail fix,,,i would suggest a 20 min. rail,,,unless your scope has a lot of elevation adjustment,,,,and i would also suggest you use a 168gr. or heavier bullet,,,my rifle like 175 nosler match,,,if you reload that will help too,,,,feed it what it likes and you can go there with the rig you have + an elevation rail,,,,

i would also tell you that it will help if the rifle has a really nice light trigger,,and you pay close attention to it,,,,trigger control is your friend here,,,,and follow through,,,stay with the gun,,,after recoil it should settle back to the target,,,lots more involved out there than the gun and scope

you can do it,,i know you can

i will toss this on the table too,,,i think most middle of the road glass today will be better than 20,,,maybe 15 year old glass of the past,,i can say this because i have both and when you put them both on the bench at the same time,,,well you just have to look,,,and you will see

my .02

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Old September 20, 2017, 07:23 PM   #25
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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AKA _Vortex brand. Also known as the Gypsy of scopes. Invented in Australia. Business office in Wisconsin. Made in China Japan & the Philippines.
Crossfire models are quality Chinese made.
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