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Old February 7, 2014, 01:26 PM   #26
gahuntsman
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Stillhunter...........if you do a little research on the web, as I did before I bought my Ruger American .308, it's a common line of thinking that Ruger did pull a lot of aspects together from various rifles and threw them together to make the American.

However, with that being said, I chose the American over many other rifles that I looked at.
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Old February 7, 2014, 02:17 PM   #27
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I thought we discussing common rim and head diameter !
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Old February 7, 2014, 09:37 PM   #28
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Just seems odd to me, that all of a sudden these manufacturer,s can produce a rifle hundreds of dollars cheaper than they did before,in the same factory.

Ruger American $345-$375
Ruger Hawkeye $600-$675

Not picking on Ruger,just an example.

Wish someone would produce propane and gasoline the same way
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Old February 7, 2014, 09:47 PM   #29
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They have simplified the machining. Think about the amount of machine work that goes into an American action VS a Mauser action. Price of stock. Price of finish.
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Old February 8, 2014, 12:37 PM   #30
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In answer to a post above, cheap doesn't necessarily mean disposable. Especially when it's all one can afford. And plastic stocks may not be "pretty" but that's not a concern to me, function is, and the "cheapies" function just fine, especially the Ruger's and the Savages. And the plastic stocks are generally lighter, which serves a real purpose if you are carrying them in the field all day. As long as it works reliably and I can afford it, then I'll take it.
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Old February 8, 2014, 01:55 PM   #31
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Wish someone would produce propane and gasoline the same way
They do, they're called methane and kerosene.
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Old February 8, 2014, 08:09 PM   #32
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I just bought another one of those "Scary" Ventures a couple hours ago. $299 plus tax is hard to pass up on a guaranteed sub-moa rifle.
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Old February 11, 2014, 07:49 PM   #33
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I paid $399 for my Venture last fall. It shot moa with American Whitetail ammo and just over half an inch with my handloads. Looked at the Ruger American and others but chose the Venture. Glad I did. Its a very nice shooter. The Venture and Icon bolt are exactly the same you just don't get a bolt disassembly tool with the venture. Don't need one though. I guess there is something to the 5R rifling because its been a shooter right out the box. I don't really care who copied who Im glad that when I decided to buy an inexpensive but quality rifle there were plenty to choose from.
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Old February 11, 2014, 09:28 PM   #34
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I very rarely disassemble bolts. Carb cleaner gets shot through them pretty often though. Now you have me wanting to take my bolt apart just for the fun of it. To me, the quality of the Venture and the American are not even comparable. The stock on the American is junk. The stock on the Venture is actually a very good stock. They are offering the Venture in an impressive number of chamberings now. I guess the barreled actions on the two are comparable, but the stocks are light years apart. My .270WSM venture was a tack driver out of the box. My American is a tack driver, but I had to do a lot of work on it to make it shoot.
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Old February 18, 2014, 08:28 AM   #35
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Was reading the marketing blurb by Remington on their 783 rifle. They borrowed quite a few ideas from their competitors and are damn proud of it. Got me to thinking how many economy rifles out there have triggers that look like a savage accutrigger.
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Old February 18, 2014, 01:37 PM   #36
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Got me to thinking how many economy rifles out there have triggers that look like a savage accutrigger.
Which Savage borrowed (some say 'ripped off') from......
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Old February 18, 2014, 01:54 PM   #37
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Notice, no one has tried to copy the S&W I-Bolt.
or the Chauchat.

Yeah, as long as it doesn't infringe an existing unexpired patent, I'm ok with any and all ripping off...even if it does, that's between them and the courts, not me.

P.S. What does the "I" in "I-Bolt" stand for, anyway?

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$299 plus tax is hard to pass up on a guaranteed sub-moa rifle.
True, but I will continue to do so until it comes with a wood stock. Thank all that is holy, that I got an Icon whilst the gettin was good.
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Old February 19, 2014, 03:27 PM   #38
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I am not all too fired up crazy about wood stocks. I have had too many problems with them over the years. Laminate is fine, but I am no fan of walnut.
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Old February 20, 2014, 08:45 AM   #39
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Reynolds357,

Here's to hoping Hogue comes up with a left handed synthetic stock for a Ruger Hawkeye Long action.
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Old September 20, 2017, 12:04 AM   #40
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Re

I don't know if Ruger is copying others bolt action design or not? But I do know they make the best revolvers I have ever put my hands on. I have an older super Redhawk I would never part with. But I have not purchased any newer Ruger firearms, although I'm sure their quality has gone down along with the rest of them? I would kinda like to get my hands on one of the TC compass or Venture rifles. Been hearing good things about them. I'm a bit of a stickler for accuracy though. I don't care if it's a deer rifle or not I expect groups well under an inch with good hand loads. So far Savage axis, Mossberg Patriot, and some Remington's that I sold years ago have not let me down. I took a chance on a weatherby vanguard S2 Sporter in 7mm08 and it shoots 2" groups at best and collects copper like the rifling was cut with a hacksaw. Not sure I'm ready to take a chance on a TC compass or not? Any of you guys own one and get better than 1" groups with it?
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Old September 27, 2017, 03:43 PM   #41
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Shawn2571---Welcome to the forum. Lots of good folk and good information here. I hope you stick around and add to the fun. HOWEVER, of your first four posts you resurrected threads that were 9, 7 and 3 years old. Nothing wrong with this but feel free to start new threads. Good luck.
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Old September 27, 2017, 03:58 PM   #42
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Just seems odd to me, that all of a sudden these manufacturer,s can produce a rifle hundreds of dollars cheaper than they did before,in the same factory.
That is because customers are demanding low prices instead of quality build. 70 years ago it was pretty much the same, and no one wanted a tube receiver slapped into a cheap stock. Until Remington made the 721. Then all of a sudden, it was cool. And they just kept cheapening the design until it is now a barrel pressed into a pipe-shaped receiver slapped into a piece of molded plastic. Myself, personally, I do not want the cheapest gun anyone can make. I kinda like my face and fingers to remain recognizable (others may disagree).
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Old September 27, 2017, 07:21 PM   #43
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Arrgh. Just arrgh.
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Old September 28, 2017, 06:38 AM   #44
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That is because customers are demanding low prices instead of quality build.
Define quality build. Is quality based on function? MOA seems to be a pretty good functional measurement for the vast majority of shooters. Are we interchanging aesthetics with quality? Are we speaking to longevity and if we are what exactly leads one to believe these budget point rifles won't have longevity?
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Old September 28, 2017, 05:37 PM   #45
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Define quality build
Accuracy counts, sure. But measuring accuracy for 3 shots doesn't tell you how it shoots after 20 rounds down the tube. I build rifles for a living, and a rifle that won't put 20 rounds into a 1" square has a problem and will get fixed before the customer gets it. I see a lot of Savage and Remington rifles that shoot really, really good for the first 10 shots, then start to open up as the barrel copper fouls because it is not perfectly smooth on the inside. So, a quality barrel for one definition of quality. And a stock that isn't a piece of molded plastic with no rigidity. I have nothing against synthetic stocks, but most are just a molded plastic shell that doesn't support the action properly. And yes, aesthetics count. I read a lot of people going on and on about what a great rifle they got because it is cheap. But no matter how you cut it, it looks like cheap plastic and aluminum is what people are accepting these days. I prefer wood, but if you gotta have synthetic, there are many, many synthetic stocks out there that will actually make your rifle perform better. I like Ruger American rifles for what they are, an accurate, cheap rifle.
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Old September 28, 2017, 07:04 PM   #46
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There are a lot of steps between a moped and a Ferrari. It's not only the Ferrari that possesses quality.
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Old September 28, 2017, 09:47 PM   #47
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There are a lot of steps between a moped and a Ferrari.
Absolutely! And those utility rifles serve a purpose, and are a lot of fun! But you will never see a bunch of guys standing around ooohing and aaahing over grey injection molded plastic and matte black finishes.
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It's not only the Ferrari that possesses quality.
Everything on earth has "quality". Many are good qualities, some others not. But don't confuse quality and suitability. My old Chevy pick-up lasted many miles, and we went a lot of places. But it was not suitable for the Indy 500. Would I rather use my Winchester Highwall or a Ruger 10/22 on a jack rabbit hunt ? While the Winchester would work just fine, the Ruger is more suitable.
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Arrgh. Just arrgh.
I agree, Mike. I will shut up now.
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Last edited by Scorch; September 28, 2017 at 09:54 PM.
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