Forster Competition Seater / 30-06

mehavey · May 20, 2011, 08:44 AM

At the suggestion of some on the Forum here, I picked up a Forster Comp Seater to compare bullet runout against my Redding Comp Seater.

With Redding, you screw the die into the press until the sleeve compresses against the shellholder/into the die all the way,
then back off a few thousandths for clearance.

Forster also has the sliding sleeve, but instructs me to screw the die down anywhere from "...two-five more turns..." after the sleeve first contacts the shellholder.
Normally I'd think setting up to run the sleeve as deep as possible as seating takes place would be to my advantage.

`Thoughts from other Forster users here?

wncchester · May 20, 2011, 11:16 AM

I don't adjust dies, including my Forsters, by any formula, I adjust for perfomance. ??

mehavey · May 22, 2011, 08:44 PM

Took two sets of Competition-Die loaded 30-06 rounds to the range today. One loaded with the Forster die, one with the Redding.

Velocity goal was the Gov't's M118/7.62 Match/173gr load for 2,550fps.

Rifle is a (New) Model 70 w/ relatively light "sporter" barrel. Bullets were seated with one stroke as opposed to two w/ a half turn; and max run-out point was oriented "up" in the chamber upon firing.

Initial impression was that the Redding Die was the Ferrari (slim-trim), the Forster was the Chevy Impala (slightly bigger-dia Micrometer dial)

Both were tight and neither showed signs of loose lashup (as the RCBS Comp die definitely did). The larger Forster Micrometer head had (naturally) larger dial marker distances for each 0.001' of adjustment. (Ostensibly a good thing).

The Range results speak for themselves. Neither outdid the other to any significant degree.

amamnn · May 23, 2011, 08:05 PM

Your results are certainly unsurprising given the test rifle--not to disparage it but the dies are built for a different application and the testing of them which requires a lot more accuracy than any model 70 was ever built to deliver.

You might as well add that no seating die, no matter how expensive and how complicated can fix an axially screwed up case or an out of alignment press--these are the two most likely causes of "runout" as seen in loaded ammo............let's also add in the out of alignment bolt face that cants the case head that frightens the maiden all forlorn that milked the cow with the crumpled horn that worked the press in the room of the house that Jack built--it's all inter-related--don't expect to get BR results with factory rifles without going ALL the way--just work to the degree of accuracy your application requires--the same test using standard RCBS and LEE dies might have yielded more useful information for folks that are not looking for match accuracy.

I load a Model 70 using all Forster dies and on a CO-ax press--the latter being only because I also load match ammo for other rifles-- I did not bother to spend the money for an extra fancy Forster seating die for a hunting rifle.

The only difference I can see between my Redding and/or Forster competition seaters and the standard seaters I use is that the standard seaters do not have micrometer markings on them which I do not mind since for a hunting or plinking round I am not going to be experimenting a lot-- I will find a load that works for that application and stick with it--for BR or long distance varmint or other match shooting you like to try various seating depths at .003" intervals or various bullets with various ogives to find the best tune for each new barrel--then the micrometer proves its worth.

wncchester · May 23, 2011, 08:55 PM

"Normally I'd think setting up to run the sleeve as deep as possible as seating takes place would be to my advantage."

Actually, once the guide sleeve contacts the shell holder, the case and bullet are held as deep inside the sleeve as they can go - all that's needed then is sufficent additional travel to allow the bullet to be seated properly.

mehavey · May 23, 2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Your results are certainly unsurprising given the test rifle... don't expect to get BR results with factory rifles without going ALL the way....

I hear you, and to be honest, shooting the ammunition after loading it was actually anticlimactic. I just wanted to see how consistent the run-out and comparator OAL's were compared between the two dies.

As to going all the way, this Model-70 is (at least for the moment) is retained in hunting configuration/weight. Those who've followed the rifle's saga for that last 6 months know that it used to give me 3-1/2 to 4 inch "groups" w/ match ammunition. Having never let a rifle defeat me yet it's undergone pillar-bedding, been totally floated`fer sure, trigger-tuned, recrowned, and fire-lapped. It now gets 3/4" - 7/8" groups w/ 168SMK's. The 175's are just my next challenge. (Maybe I'll succumb to blueprinting and putting a medium-weight Krieger on it someday -- but for now it's like shooting skeet handicapped w/ a 28ga)

As to going all the way, I did just that w/ my father's (1952 Model-70) 220-Swift and my Colt AR. Given those results, my 25-year old Lyman Orange Crusher doesn't seem to be contributing much to the error budget.

May 20, 2011, 08:44 AM	#1
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Forster Competition Seater / 30-06 At the suggestion of some on the Forum here, I picked up a Forster Comp Seater to compare bullet runout against my Redding Comp Seater. With Redding, you screw the die into the press until the sleeve compresses against the shellholder/into the die all the way, then back off a few thousandths for clearance. Forster also has the sliding sleeve, but instructs me to screw the die down anywhere from "...two-five more turns..." after the sleeve first contacts the shellholder. Normally I'd think setting up to run the sleeve as deep as possible as seating takes place would be to my advantage. `Thoughts from other Forster users here?

May 22, 2011, 08:44 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Forster v Redding Comp Seating Die -- Results Took two sets of Competition-Die loaded 30-06 rounds to the range today. One loaded with the Forster die, one with the Redding. Velocity goal was the Gov't's M118/7.62 Match/173gr load for 2,550fps. Rifle is a (New) Model 70 w/ relatively light "sporter" barrel. Bullets were seated with one stroke as opposed to two w/ a half turn; and max run-out point was oriented "up" in the chamber upon firing. Initial impression was that the Redding Die was the Ferrari (slim-trim), the Forster was the Chevy Impala (slightly bigger-dia Micrometer dial) Both were tight and neither showed signs of loose lashup (as the RCBS Comp die definitely did). The larger Forster Micrometer head had (naturally) larger dial marker distances for each 0.001' of adjustment. (Ostensibly a good thing). The Range results speak for themselves. Neither outdid the other to any significant degree. Last edited by mehavey; May 22, 2011 at 09:13 PM.

May 23, 2011, 08:05 PM	#4
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	Your results are certainly unsurprising given the test rifle--not to disparage it but the dies are built for a different application and the testing of them which requires a lot more accuracy than any model 70 was ever built to deliver. You might as well add that no seating die, no matter how expensive and how complicated can fix an axially screwed up case or an out of alignment press--these are the two most likely causes of "runout" as seen in loaded ammo............let's also add in the out of alignment bolt face that cants the case head that frightens the maiden all forlorn that milked the cow with the crumpled horn that worked the press in the room of the house that Jack built--it's all inter-related--don't expect to get BR results with factory rifles without going ALL the way--just work to the degree of accuracy your application requires--the same test using standard RCBS and LEE dies might have yielded more useful information for folks that are not looking for match accuracy. I load a Model 70 using all Forster dies and on a CO-ax press--the latter being only because I also load match ammo for other rifles-- I did not bother to spend the money for an extra fancy Forster seating die for a hunting rifle. The only difference I can see between my Redding and/or Forster competition seaters and the standard seaters I use is that the standard seaters do not have micrometer markings on them which I do not mind since for a hunting or plinking round I am not going to be experimenting a lot-- I will find a load that works for that application and stick with it--for BR or long distance varmint or other match shooting you like to try various seating depths at .003" intervals or various bullets with various ogives to find the best tune for each new barrel--then the micrometer proves its worth. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal Last edited by amamnn; May 23, 2011 at 08:12 PM.

May 20, 2011, 11:16 AM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	I don't adjust dies, including my Forsters, by any formula, I adjust for perfomance. ??

May 23, 2011, 08:55 PM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Normally I'd think setting up to run the sleeve as deep as possible as seating takes place would be to my advantage." Actually, once the guide sleeve contacts the shell holder, the case and bullet are held as deep inside the sleeve as they can go - all that's needed then is sufficent additional travel to allow the bullet to be seated properly.