The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 1, 2007, 12:58 AM   #1
lawboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Posts: 127
The superiority of the K frame magnum!

Every once in a while I just cannot help but hold forth on the superiority of the S&W K frame magnums. You know, the models 13, 19, 65 and 66. I am talking the pre-MIM and pre-lock guns. Those oooooh so sweet and sexy carry guns from a bygone era of good guys and bad guys, and citizen kanes.
Could there by a more vibrant, more responsive, more perfectly balanced carry piece than the 2.5- and 3-inch k frame magnums? I THINK NOT!
As I sit here, M19-3, 2.5-inch magnum in a holster at my elbow on the desktop, I feel a great appreciation for the gun, and thankfulness for Mr. Jordan and those at S&W who's good judgment and excellent design brought these guns to life. Slap on the grips of your choice and these guns are, without doubt the finest carry revolvers of all time. Period. End of story. And, truth be told, they are, even today, a better CCW for most private citizens than any other handgun.

Some will try to say the L frame is better because it is marginally larger and much stronger. Hog wash! The L frame is significantly larger and its extra strength is commonly over stated. I've owned and shot them all ... a lot. What you do get in additional robustness with the L frame is undermined by the increased size and weight, and lack of liveliness in the way the gun handles when compared to a K frame gun. The L frame is a superb range gun and hunting gun. It is good belt holster gun, but the L frame is just an okay CCW gun in snubnose configuration. They are simply too large and too heavy to be best in show in the CCW role.

I don't know why I am going on about this tonight but I just love those K frame magnums!
lawboy is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:07 AM   #2
croyance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2001
Posts: 3,604
I like them too, favorite S&W.
Isn't the S&W 15 a magnum?
croyance is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:11 AM   #3
lawboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Posts: 127
Nope. 15 is a .38 special with adjustable sights.
lawboy is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:23 AM   #4
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
+1 on the K-Frame magnums.

croyance, the Model 15 is a .38 Special. The Models 13 (fixed) and 19 (adjustable sights) were the blued K-Frame Magnums.

While I appreciate the reasons behind the L-Frame, I think S&W uglied it up with the full underlug (I never did care much for it on the Python either). The Model 620 is a step in the right direction.

The K-Frames are light & quick handling. The feel "right" in the hand and to the eye they are svelt, elegant looking guns. The downside is that they can be a handful with .357 Magnum ammo unless you've practiced enough to get used to it. The L-Frame was originally intended to replace police service revolvers which typically see heavier use than privately owned guns. Unfortunately, the conversion to semi-autos overtook the L-Frame.

Whether you wear it in a duty holster or under your jacket, the K-Frame magnums are about the best blend of size and power in a six-shooter.

__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:30 AM   #5
DonR101395
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2005
Location: NWFL
Posts: 3,031
I love my model 13 and 65. I prefer the 3" over the 4" but couldn't resist the urge for one of each.
DonR101395 is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:55 AM   #6
Professor
Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2002
Posts: 22
Lawboy, you just put into words something I feel almost every day with my own CCW and house gun - a S&W Model 65.

This class of guns, especially in 3" dress are truly something special and I've yet to find anything else that even comes close in overall feel and quality within the revolver family.
Professor is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 06:55 AM   #7
mes228
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2005
Posts: 628
Model 19

I really agree on the whole statement. The only change I have made to the Model 19 and 66's I've had over the years was grips. I favor the Ahrends finger groove on my current Model 19. They are jewels. Though I've never used one in combat I believe them to be the finest fighting revolvers ever made. Beautifull in every way with quality that cannot be matched anywhere. Just my opinion.
mes228 is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 08:14 AM   #8
18DAI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 2,156
Agreed. My model 66-4 3" gets carried more than any other handgun I own. My model 19-4 4" just passed 11,000 rounds, without a problem. If there is a better revolver, I've not come across it yet.

The only revolvers I've had problems out of, have been L-frames. My 586-5 PC L-comp went out of time, and a 686-5 had light strikes, and timing issues.

I still purchase and carry revolvers. The only ones I'm looking for currently, are LNIB K-frame magnums. Regards 18DAI.
18DAI is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 09:29 AM   #9
sash
Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2007
Posts: 15
I finally registered here just to add my ditto to this thread. My Model 66-1 is my favorite revolver, with a Model 19 not far behind. The K frame, in general, is my idea of what a revolver should be. I've got N frames, J frames and L frames, but none are as handy as a good K. Unlike many folks, I even prefer Magnas on these guns. I also admit to being more fond of the 4" than the shorter barrels, but I'll take any K frame I can find!
sash is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 12:16 PM   #10
SnWnMe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 381
Superior enough to get discontinued

I agree, Magnum Ks are neat guns.
__________________
If you can kick in the pants the person responsible for your problems, you won't be able to sit for a month.
SnWnMe is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 01:07 PM   #11
18DAI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 2,156
Couldn't be made cheap enough, is more likely. Regards 18DAI.
18DAI is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 02:19 PM   #12
PzGren
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2001
Posts: 1,246
My current favourite is a 4" M65 police trade in. It has the best double action in all of my wheelguns.
PzGren is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 02:21 PM   #13
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,733
K frames are attractive, well balanced and great to shoot. At the same time a steady diet of full power 357 rounds will prematurely wear them out. They were the weapon of choice when the LEOs who were armed with them followed the "Practice with 38s, Carry 357s" mentality. Times have changed though and even if the move to autoloaders had not happenned it is now understood better that one should practice with what they carry. As a result the Model 19 would still have to be set aside....

If you want to shoot it primarily with 38s though and once and a while throw some 357s through it then it is certainly a great gun.
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 04:28 PM   #14
lawboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Posts: 127
It is great to find kindred spirits here!
To those who believe the K frames are delicate, I can only say that I have not found that to be the case. I do agree that there were problems with the early full house 125-grain loads but today's 125-grain loads are not up at those early pressure levels. Still, I admit that I do not shoot 125-grain defense loads in my guns. I carry my 19-3 with 145-grain silvertips and 150-grain Starfire ammo.

That said, the guns are not delicate by any stretch and will consume may thousands of magnum loads that are much more powerful than 38 special without any undue wear.

I do not agree that the k frame would have gone bye bye in law enforcement even if the semi-auto had not taken over. Advances in metallurgy have made it absolutely possible to produce K frame magnums of yesterday's dimensions but with more strength and durability. Semi-autos killed the K frame in law enforcement work, plain and simple.

With that said, I do not believe the revolver is the best tool for law enforcement work today. However, for private citizen CCW, the K frame is unequaled in my humble opinion.
lawboy is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 06:59 PM   #15
skeeter1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2006
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 3,403
Quote:
It is great to find kindred spirits here!
Indeed, it is! I had a 2.5" Smith M66 that I sold to a young friend of mine who is now stationed with the US Army in Alaska. It was a bit much for my old bones, but I have nothing bad to say about it. Never once a FTF.

My .38Spl M60 is more my speed, but K-frame Smiths are outstanding handguns.
skeeter1 is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 07:07 PM   #16
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,289
The "N" frames rule! Especially the model 27 with 8 3/8 inch barrel. 158 grain handloads at 1500 FPS!

The "L" frame isn't a REAL .357 magnum, it's just a "K" frame on steroids!
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 08:02 PM   #17
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,676
My original 66 is still great as I have not fired the cr-p out of it with high power ammo. And like someone said, some so called magnum loads seem to be a bit down powered from the real hot stuff. Not that it is a bad thing for preserving the gun. I have seen more N frames 357s that were worn and loose and out of time, given it is a local random sample and maybe not representative. But I suppose it is because people assume they can shoot them with lots of overloads and hot stuff and treat them rough, believing the hype that they can take it. My 66 is my second oldest gun, next to a 1983 Raven that is just there for no reason anymore. The 66 would be the very last gun I will part with, hopefully not pried from my fingers by some vicious gun banners.
Tom2 is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 08:53 PM   #18
Sodbuster75
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2007
Posts: 11
I had a 2.5 inch 66, and I thought it was a great gun. Unfortunately, I had to sell it due to financial circumstances, and I have regretted it ever since. I need to find another one!

Sodbuster
Sodbuster75 is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 09:13 PM   #19
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,552
Quote:
Could there by a more vibrant, more responsive, more perfectly balanced carry piece than the 2.5- and 3-inch k frame magnums?
Well, I won't say MORE but I will say EQUALLY. The gun series that was created to compete with the K frame magnums: the Ruger Security Six/Service Six/Speed Six.

And, like the K frames, they were replaced by a heavier and bulkier gun (the GP-100) that has never really replaced them in my heart.

Take a four inch Security Six and compare it it to a S&W four inch M28. The difference in size is really noticeable! I love the N frame Smiths but I would sure rather carry a Security Six if I was a cop on duty.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 09:18 PM   #20
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,552
Quote:
At the same time a steady diet of full power 357 rounds will prematurely wear them out.
Read this:

http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm
tulsamal is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 09:50 PM   #21
18DAI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 2,156
Still premature to say no K-frames are used by law enforcement. I used my 66-4 3" to clear/search a house, and later a motel room, Wednesday AM. I was not undergunned either. Speer 158 grain Gold Dots, with 2 speed loaders in my pocket. I think there is one other Investigator locally who carries a model 13 3" too.

Until recently, the NC DOC probation officers carried model 65 3" barrels. The K-frame is really a perfect handgun for plain clothes, or CCW carry. Regards 18DAI.
18DAI is offline  
Old February 1, 2007, 10:09 PM   #22
Camaroman_99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 132
In praise of K-frames. I do like the Combat Magnums.....
__________________
Sig p228
S&W Model 19
S&W 29-2
Colt Detective Special .38
Camaroman_99 is offline  
Old February 2, 2007, 04:08 PM   #23
Rimrod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Behind enemy lines
Posts: 1,309
The K-frame was, and is, the best sidearm ever made for carry. I also like the N-frames but with the extra weight they got really heavy after a days work. Now as far as the L-frames, they are the stupidest guns ever made.

They were made to make up lagging sales due to interest in the Security Six/Speed Six models from Ruger and with the full underlug of the Colt Python. They were two ounces less than an N-frame and the cop circles ate them up!
Rimrod is offline  
Old February 2, 2007, 05:11 PM   #24
lawboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2005
Posts: 127
For me, the L Frames are still nice guns, but they are not true fighting guns in the pure sense of the word. They are general purpose, "compromise" guns and excellent ones at that. But when it comes to having a belt gun, they are needlessly heavy and bulky, and for CCW, they are too big, and not very lively in the hand. Still, they are superb range guns, excellent hunting weapons, and great gaming guns for the action sports.

The K Frame reigns supreme as a close combat and concealed carry weapon for general civilian use!
lawboy is offline  
Old February 2, 2007, 11:52 PM   #25
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,677
Depends on who you are, and

What you do. I don't carry a gun for a living, and I don't CCW with large guns, so If you do, you are welcome to your opinions. I use mine for target and hunting, and for me, the N frame is the best choice. Model 28 6", or Model 29 6.5".

I can't help it, K frames just look small to me. I have owned Model 19s, and they are fine guns. I have a 4" model 66, it is a fine gun, and if I needed to carry a .357 for "social work", that one would be it. But for my shooting pleasure, I'll choose the N frames every time.

FYI, I have no interest in the current S&W revolvers with the lock. At all.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.14195 seconds with 8 queries