Dragoon vs. 1858 New Model Army - Page 2

Model12Win · December 19, 2013, 08:19 PM

44 Dave, please read my previous post to clarify what I was saying. Thank you.

Well gang, I'm going to be visiting the Bass Pro Shop in Independence, MO this coming Monday on my way home for X-mas. I called ahead and they told me they have everything I need for a .44 percussion revolver, including real black powder. That was quite the relief because I've been hunting around everywhere for components but no places within reasonable driving distance has any balls, caps, or real black powder. A shame, but alsas, I live in Kansas and have family in Illinois, and the route I take home (I70) has a Bass Pro right off the highway there in Independence. Sweet!

I think it might be settled in this ol' brain of mine. I'm going to nab a New Model Army! I've just heard so many good things about them as a "starter" gun for a person new to the hobby. I want to thank everyone for there knowledge and time!

Doc Hoy · December 20, 2013, 09:08 AM

Good choice. (Just my opinion)

Since you live so far away, you might want to pick up a coupla cans of the real stuff rather than just one.

In addition, you might want to consider casting your own round balls.

You will eventually get so good at it that your consistency will exceed Hornady balls.

Merry Christmas.

SIGSHR · December 20, 2013, 03:43 PM

The Dragoon is my favorite BP revolver, I like the heft and feel, firing full loads out of it is like firing 38 Specials out of an S&W N frame. But yes, get both. The sights are better on the Remington.

Model12Win · December 21, 2013, 03:41 PM

One reason I think I'm going with the Remy is because I also want to shoot Hodgdon 777 powder with it. Supposedly Hodgdon doesn't recommend using a charge over 35 grains in a BP revolver. The Remy however has a max charge right around 35 grains.

powder-n-lead · December 21, 2013, 03:59 PM

like doc says you will cast some very good ones, and it is very self satisfing to make them yourself and the cost savings allows more bank for the buck.

powder-n-lead · December 21, 2013, 04:20 PM

enyaw your rite, I think any more it is a crap shoot on the guns, I know any large company will spend only so much time (money) on gun inspection, and factorys like pietta and uberti it is a matter of when will they replace there cnc tooling cutters, how often are the machines re-calibrated, ect. and who can guess how many run down the line without a glance. they know it is cheaper buy far to deal with cost of returns vrs. building more perfect guns..

but I will say this, considering the enormous demand on production times to get these out,I think pietta, and uberti do a pretty good job, as in the early day production was much smaller. I am picky about all my guns and had to learn to fix em myself, or be at the mercy and expense of letting someone else handel it for me. opinions will vary, but I will work on the new ones because they can all be improved upon especially in the action tuneing dept. an it is very satisfiying to know I did it myself (pat on back now) yea you will mess some up but that is the way we learn and in no time a person will save alot of money and agravation. .

DD4lifeusmc · December 22, 2013, 07:15 PM

Both are well made guns, and for the most part you really don't need to worry much about fit finish and reliable operation regardless whom you buy from.
Personally a little touch up here and there to the wood or brass, and even the inner working is a good hobby, helps you to learn your gun and make it your own.
Yes the Dragoon can hold a larger powder charge, but doesn't have to.
Like reloading modern shells. Bigger, faster, more power doesn't necessarily translate to better accuracy.
You mentioned self defense. How did you mean it? On the street, in the house, or hunting.
On the street I would lean towards 1858 as it is smaller and lighter physically.
But I feel it would have adequate stopping power in most any common every day scenarios.
In the house either would get the job done.
To me both the colt and the Remmie have nice lines.
I own several of each. I roll paper cartridges and leave both loaded for months at a time. Other then the occasional bad cap, they have always went boom!
In the end it will come down to personal choice.
Enjoy whichever one you choose, and happy shooting!!

kilimanjaro · December 22, 2013, 10:41 PM

Choose one or both, but buy a matched pair, sequential numbers. Also buy two spare cylinders, a powder flask, etc., when you can, and get a nice wood case made for the pair and all accessories. You'll have a real heirloom there.

James K · December 23, 2013, 12:00 AM

Around 1858, the Army asked Sam Colt to come up with a .44 caliber revolver that wasn't as d****d heavy as the Dragoon. IMHO, they were pretty smart guys.

Jim

Model12Win · December 23, 2013, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Both are well made guns, and for the most part you really don't need to worry much about fit finish and reliable operation regardless whom you buy from.
Personally a little touch up here and there to the wood or brass, and even the inner working is a good hobby, helps you to learn your gun and make it your own.
Yes the Dragoon can hold a larger powder charge, but doesn't have to.
Like reloading modern shells. Bigger, faster, more power doesn't necessarily translate to better accuracy.
You mentioned self defense. How did you mean it? On the street, in the house, or hunting.
On the street I would lean towards 1858 as it is smaller and lighter physically.
But I feel it would have adequate stopping power in most any common every day scenarios.
In the house either would get the job done.
To me both the colt and the Remmie have nice lines.
I own several of each. I roll paper cartridges and leave both loaded for months at a time. Other then the occasional bad cap, they have always went boom!
In the end it will come down to personal choice.
Enjoy whichever one you choose, and happy shooting!!

I meant possible home defense or SHTF back up. I really think I'm going to nab a Remy when the cash cow starts to moo

The government owes me a check any day now. Tomorrow I'm going to Bass Pro Shops on my way home for X-mas. I can't wait! I'm going to get everything I need to shoot my Father's '51 Colt Navy in .44 caliber, and I have a powder horn and spout coming in the mail. I'm excited to join the world of cap and ball revolvers!!!

Jbar4Ranch · December 25, 2013, 10:50 PM

I have found with Walkers & Dragoons that the frame will show signs of peening in fairly short order directly behind the wedge when shot repeatedly with full loads. They are definitely crowd pleasers at a Cowboy Action shoot though!

I've never owned an 1858 pattern before (unless you count ROA's), but just corrected that oversight two days ago by ordering three from Cabela's Christmas black powder revolver sale - the steel frame Pietta is normally $269.99 and was marked down to $179.99 before Christmas. I just checked and it's now $229.99. There is also a $20 rebate AND a free "starter kit" consisting of flask, balls, lube, capper, measure, and wads, normally priced at... $75, I think.

dr1445 · December 26, 2013, 06:39 AM

as of 12/26/13 6:30 am eastern time my computer is still showing the 179.99 price.

Jbar4Ranch · December 26, 2013, 08:36 PM

That's odd... cached page maybe? I checked at work this morning when I read your post and it was $229.99, just like yesterday, and it's showing $229.99 on my laptop at home.

dr1445 · December 26, 2013, 09:57 PM

i am showing the 229.99 price now. i got my order in last week, now i can wait another year an see about 1860.

Rigmarol · December 27, 2013, 10:51 AM

Keep an eye peeled for sooner sales. I usually see them 2 to 3 times a year go on sale.

December 20, 2013, 09:08 AM	#27
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Model 12 Good choice. (Just my opinion) Since you live so far away, you might want to pick up a coupla cans of the real stuff rather than just one. In addition, you might want to consider casting your own round balls. You will eventually get so good at it that your consistency will exceed Hornady balls. Merry Christmas. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 21, 2013, 03:59 PM	#30
powder-n-lead Member Join Date: December 11, 2013 Location: oregon Posts: 22	like doc says you will cast some very good ones, and it is very self satisfing to make them yourself and the cost savings allows more bank for the buck. __________________ a bad day of shooting is better than a good day at work

December 21, 2013, 04:20 PM	#31
powder-n-lead Member Join Date: December 11, 2013 Location: oregon Posts: 22	enyaw your rite, I think any more it is a crap shoot on the guns, I know any large company will spend only so much time (money) on gun inspection, and factorys like pietta and uberti it is a matter of when will they replace there cnc tooling cutters, how often are the machines re-calibrated, ect. and who can guess how many run down the line without a glance. they know it is cheaper buy far to deal with cost of returns vrs. building more perfect guns.. but I will say this, considering the enormous demand on production times to get these out,I think pietta, and uberti do a pretty good job, as in the early day production was much smaller. I am picky about all my guns and had to learn to fix em myself, or be at the mercy and expense of letting someone else handel it for me. opinions will vary, but I will work on the new ones because they can all be improved upon especially in the action tuneing dept. an it is very satisfiying to know I did it myself (pat on back now) yea you will mess some up but that is the way we learn and in no time a person will save alot of money and agravation. . __________________ a bad day of shooting is better than a good day at work

December 22, 2013, 07:15 PM	#32
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	Dragoon vs 1858 Both are well made guns, and for the most part you really don't need to worry much about fit finish and reliable operation regardless whom you buy from. Personally a little touch up here and there to the wood or brass, and even the inner working is a good hobby, helps you to learn your gun and make it your own. Yes the Dragoon can hold a larger powder charge, but doesn't have to. Like reloading modern shells. Bigger, faster, more power doesn't necessarily translate to better accuracy. You mentioned self defense. How did you mean it? On the street, in the house, or hunting. On the street I would lean towards 1858 as it is smaller and lighter physically. But I feel it would have adequate stopping power in most any common every day scenarios. In the house either would get the job done. To me both the colt and the Remmie have nice lines. I own several of each. I roll paper cartridges and leave both loaded for months at a time. Other then the occasional bad cap, they have always went boom! In the end it will come down to personal choice. Enjoy whichever one you choose, and happy shooting!!

December 25, 2013, 10:50 PM	#36
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I have found with Walkers & Dragoons that the frame will show signs of peening in fairly short order directly behind the wedge when shot repeatedly with full loads. They are definitely crowd pleasers at a Cowboy Action shoot though! I've never owned an 1858 pattern before (unless you count ROA's), but just corrected that oversight two days ago by ordering three from Cabela's Christmas black powder revolver sale - the steel frame Pietta is normally $269.99 and was marked down to $179.99 before Christmas. I just checked and it's now $229.99. There is also a $20 rebate AND a free "starter kit" consisting of flask, balls, lube, capper, measure, and wads, normally priced at... $75, I think. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

December 19, 2013, 08:19 PM	#26
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	44 Dave, please read my previous post to clarify what I was saying. Thank you. Well gang, I'm going to be visiting the Bass Pro Shop in Independence, MO this coming Monday on my way home for X-mas. I called ahead and they told me they have everything I need for a .44 percussion revolver, including real black powder. That was quite the relief because I've been hunting around everywhere for components but no places within reasonable driving distance has any balls, caps, or real black powder. A shame, but alsas, I live in Kansas and have family in Illinois, and the route I take home (I70) has a Bass Pro right off the highway there in Independence. Sweet! I think it might be settled in this ol' brain of mine. I'm going to nab a New Model Army! I've just heard so many good things about them as a "starter" gun for a person new to the hobby. I want to thank everyone for there knowledge and time!

December 20, 2013, 03:43 PM	#28
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	The Dragoon is my favorite BP revolver, I like the heft and feel, firing full loads out of it is like firing 38 Specials out of an S&W N frame. But yes, get both. The sights are better on the Remington.

December 21, 2013, 03:41 PM	#29
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	One reason I think I'm going with the Remy is because I also want to shoot Hodgdon 777 powder with it. Supposedly Hodgdon doesn't recommend using a charge over 35 grains in a BP revolver. The Remy however has a max charge right around 35 grains.

December 22, 2013, 10:41 PM	#33
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Choose one or both, but buy a matched pair, sequential numbers. Also buy two spare cylinders, a powder flask, etc., when you can, and get a nice wood case made for the pair and all accessories. You'll have a real heirloom there.

December 23, 2013, 12:00 AM	#34
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Around 1858, the Army asked Sam Colt to come up with a .44 caliber revolver that wasn't as d****d heavy as the Dragoon. IMHO, they were pretty smart guys. Jim

December 26, 2013, 06:39 AM	#37
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	as of 12/26/13 6:30 am eastern time my computer is still showing the 179.99 price.

December 26, 2013, 08:36 PM	#38
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	That's odd... cached page maybe? I checked at work this morning when I read your post and it was $229.99, just like yesterday, and it's showing $229.99 on my laptop at home. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

December 26, 2013, 09:57 PM	#39
dr1445 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 199	i am showing the 229.99 price now. i got my order in last week, now i can wait another year an see about 1860.

December 27, 2013, 10:51 AM	#40
Rigmarol Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 344	Keep an eye peeled for sooner sales. I usually see them 2 to 3 times a year go on sale.