.38 Special 125 JHP Snubnose powder loading

[Jeffm004]

Winchester silvertips, 110 gr run 820 fps out of my 2" snub.

Bullseye at 4.6 with 125 gr JHP runs 820 out of a 4" Ruger, drop to the 2" and they are 499 fps. I can move to top of book 4.8 but I doubt that picks up 300 fps. I'd like to stick with the 125 gr bullets.

Suggestions for a faster snub powder? I have 231 (yes, yes I do), Power Pistol, unique and Bullseye.

[wpsdlrg]

125 grain JHP. 4.6 grains of Bullseye produces 820 fps from a 4" barrel....but the SAME load only goes 499 fps from a 2" barrel ???

Are those accurate numbers (measured with a chronograph).....or an estimate (from a loading program perhaps) ???

In NO event should you lose 321 fps in that scenario! That is simply crazy. The MOST you should lose would be about 150 fps, probably not that much, in fact. In a similar situation, in my direct experience, the loss from a 2" barrel. vs. a 4", was actually only a bit less than 100 fps.

So, IF those are ACTUAL numbers (measured on a chrono).......either, 1) something is wrong with the chronograph or some operator error is responsible, or .....2) the barrel on the 2" gun is ridiculously tight or rough.

Either way, IF the numbers are correct, there is NO magic powder that will produce "normal" velocity, if Bullseye won't. Bullseye is nearly the fastest powder out there, with a very steep pressure curve - which is what is needed for a really short barrel. Nothing else, certainly no slower powder, will produce greater velocity for such a gun.

IF that snubby TRULY won't do any better than that, I'd either re-barrel it, or get rid of the darn thing.

Frankly, I don't believe those numbers. Something is very wrong with them.

[Jeffm004]

String 42
1) 558.1 58.2
2) 427.2 -72.7
3) 508.7 8.8
4) 491.5 -8.4
5) 513.8 13.9

High: 558.1
Low: 427.2
E.S.: 130.9
Ave.: 499.9
S.D.: 42.5
95%: ±65.9

String 44
1) 796.9 -29.1
2) 839.8 13.8
3) 819.0 -7.0
4) 841.6 15.6
5) 832.6 6.6

High: 841.6
Low: 796.9
E.S.: 44.7
Ave.: 826.0
S.D.: 16.6
95%: ±25.7

The 2" is a S&W Lady Smith, about 1990 new. Rarely fired but yeah, I should look at the gun.....

String 43 was a couple rounds pulled at random. Also slow.

[David R]

Originally Posted by wpsdlrg

.....Snip Bullseye is nearly the fastest powder out there, with a very steep pressure curve - which is what is needed for a really short barrel. Nothing else, certainly no slower powder, will produce greater velocity for such a gun. Snip.....

I disagree, Unique will give more velocity than Bullseye. Short barrel or not.
Look in the manuals. I have proven it many times with my own model 36, and 637.


I just checked a couple loads, I chronon them for each gun, so a standard load of 850 from a 4" comes out 750 for a 2". A hot load is 991 fps from a 4", 865 from a 2"

Looking at your crony results, I would guess poor ignition. ES of 474?
David

[Jeffm004]

String 45 (The Win Silver Tip - sixth round was 381 - but there was never one fired -- Avg closer to 820)
1) 684.7 -39.5
2) 856.0 131.8
3) 805.7 81.5
4) 802.0 77.8
5) 815.0 90.8


High: 856.0
Low: 381.9
E.S.: 474.1
Ave.: 724.2
S.D.: 161.8
95%: ±203.7

[TimSr]

I too am having trouble with the numbers and have to think something's not right, whether its gun, chrony, or powder meaure.

I also would agree that the problem is not Bullseye being too slow. Used to be the fastest powder you could buy. Don't know that it still is. I also agree that Unique will give better velocities. If your TRUE velocities are that low for a 125gr JHP, you would be better served to shoot 148gr wadcutters, or 158gr semi-wadcutters, because your HPs wont expand anyways.

I'm carryng my Taurus snubbie with 148gr DEWCs over 7.1 gr Blue Dot and I get 950fps, and I doubt I'm even in the +P range.

I don't know what's going on, but something doesn't add up.

[wpsdlrg]

OK. From the chrono data posted, it is fairly obvious that the really slow loads are NOT the typical result.

So, the obvious answer is the LOADS - not the gun. Something was wrong with those particular LOADS......poor ignition, as David R mentioned..... cartridges under-loaded by accident, etc. etc.

Much of the data posted indicates that you are getting normal velocities from that 2" snubby.

[Nick_C_S]

Nothing else, certainly no slower powder, will produce greater velocity for such a gun.

I disagree with this notion. Moving to a slower powder like your Unique or Power Pistol will deliver a higher velocity bullet.

But . . .

I agree in another sense: Moving to a slower powder is going to give a lot more flash, noise, and recoil. And IMO won't be worth the meager gain in velocity.

So although I disagree with wspdlrg's statement strictly as stated. I agree with his over-arching premise: If you're shooting with a snubbie, stick with faster propellants.

You have W231, and that would probably be a better choice than Bullseye. Yes, W231 is slightly slower than Bullseye, but still plenty fast to build a good, "balanced" round for a snub nose. Other good choices (if you have them) are AA#2 or TiteGroup. But I wouldn't go with anything with a slower burn rate than those.

And then there's the issue with your chrono results. You're velocity drops should be in the order of 150 f/s or so - not 300+ f/s. So I agree with the others - something isn't right; and it could well be your gun. And that issue must be resolved, or any discussion of powder selection is purely academic.

[Jeffm004]

Yep. I will pull a few tonight but the 4" velocity was string 44. Results as expected with the load. The factory were also as expected.

[Jeffm004]

Two at 4.5.... I'll bring both guns and shoot the remaining 50 Friday. Maybe pull 5-10 as well. I bought another box of factor for a control group.