|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
May 9, 2013, 08:20 AM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
|
Quote:
Anti: The NRA used this same report to convince the American people that we did not need any more gun restrictions. Since gun crime appeared to be going down, we let it go and no new AW ban or hi-cap bans were enacted. Now, the same report that the NRA used to convince the American people that they didn't need any more gun laws, shows gun crime on the rise. We can no longer afford to let this go. We must act now. It is time that we enact a new AW ban and magazine restrictions.... You can see that if we don't act, gun crime will only continue to increase..... |
|
May 9, 2013, 08:51 AM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 864
|
From Grizz12
Quote:
|
|
May 9, 2013, 09:05 AM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
|
Quote:
Notable crime drop has lots of reasons. A better and more often publicly armed and equipped citizenry may be one of them.
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. |
|
May 9, 2013, 09:07 AM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 864
|
Found it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...880236844.html Quote:
|
|
May 9, 2013, 04:27 PM | #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Quote:
IMO: It's not a coincidence that the murder rate came down with the enactment of "make my day" laws and "stand your ground " laws. During the Christmas-New years holidays of 1986-87, six elderly OK citizens were murdered by burglars. These murders, coupled with the killing of a burglar by a Tulsa dentist, who was sued by the family of the late burglar; lead to the OK "make my day" law. After OK passed the "make my day" law in 1987 the number of burglaries were dramatically reduced. In 1987 there were 58,333 reported burglaries in OK. In 1997 there were 40,015 reported burglaries in OK. By 2000 that nimber had been reduced to 31,661. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-burglary.html http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/okcrimn.htm Last edited by thallub; May 9, 2013 at 04:37 PM. |
|
May 9, 2013, 06:04 PM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
Do we want to cling to a given report? Nope, but there is no reason not to use it to the fullest extent either. Bear in mind that this is a report compiled under the guise of a Democrat dominated government. So we can't claim this is a report negatively biased by the Democrats when it so nicely shows their concerns obviously being alleviated. To ignore the benefits to us expressed by the data in this report would be extremely short-sighted.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
May 9, 2013, 06:12 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,037
|
To go one step further,
The extent to which this DOJ report substantiates, even indirectly, the NRA's contention that "the only thing that stops evil men with guns is good men with guns" is nothing short of remarkable, particularly considering that Eric Holder is the US Attorney General, ostensibly at the helm of DOJ. One wonders whether this DOJ report will factor at all in the media circus which is sure to lead up to the mid-term elections...
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case. |
May 9, 2013, 06:36 PM | #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Total fatal and non-fatal gun violence incidents declined dramatically from 1,548,000 in 1993 to 478,000 in 2011.
Then there is this: Quote:
|
|
May 9, 2013, 07:50 PM | #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Quote:
Many gunowners are too wrapped around the axle with the "UN is going to take my guns away", "Obama will take our guns by executive order", "the govermnent is buying up all the ammo", "DHS bought 1,500 armored personnel carriers" and numerous other high button conspiracy theories to pay much attention to a favorable crime report from DOJ. BTW: The numbers from previous reports are more or less locked in stone. If anyone in government would mess with those figures and phoney up a subsequent report there would be a big congressional investigation. |
|
May 9, 2013, 08:05 PM | #35 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Quote:
The fact that such laws did not lead to an increase in crime is a good point to make in an argument. However, the idea that the laws are responsible for a decrease in crime is something we can't prove.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
May 9, 2013, 08:11 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
One needs to see if the drop also occurred in states that did not have such gun friendly laws. Lott argued that he co-varied such out but that's been controversial.
You would need steeper slopes in the gun states vs. the nongun states to make that point. Probably been done but I don't recall the gun states being steeper. Also, you need to look at it by a county by county basis to control for demographic differences. The point about there not being a noticeable increase in crime is well taken.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
May 9, 2013, 08:49 PM | #37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
|
Quote:
In the US violence is correlated closely to ethnicity, education, age, gender and income related. For example African American males are murdered at rates 8-10X that of whites males and nearly always by other AA males. If it were possible to separate the statistics we would have a very European type murder rate (around 2.6) for non AA's in the US.
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. |
|
May 9, 2013, 09:36 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 635
|
I will be watching Wisconsin rates. Latest info is here:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/wicrime.htm It only goes to 2011, which is a partial year for concealed carry. Violent crime was down in 2011, but it appears to just be following the recent year-over-year trend. It will be interesting to see what happened in 2012.
__________________
SAF, ACLDN, IDPA, handgunlaw.us My AmazonSmile benefits SAF I'd rather be carried by 6 than caged by 12. 2020: It's pronounced twenty twenty. |
May 9, 2013, 09:45 PM | #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,820
|
Quote:
I am just glad that it's more than the other side has.
__________________
If you ever have to use a firearm, you don't get to pick the scenario! |
|
May 10, 2013, 09:27 AM | #40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 24, 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,903
|
Quote:
|
|
May 10, 2013, 10:59 AM | #41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: Sweet Home
Posts: 886
|
Quote:
We can point to a part of our society where there are problems are but unless we address those problems properly they won't go away.
__________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. |
|
May 10, 2013, 04:24 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
Probably the most surprising statistic I have seen is from Table 13 on page 13:
In 1997, 9.9% of those in state custody and 7.6% of those in federal custody possessed single shot firearms when arrested. In 2004, the percentages were 7.5% and 8.2%, respectively. SINGLE SHOT FIREARMS? What type of moron packs a single shot firearm when up to no good? |
May 10, 2013, 04:30 PM | #43 |
Staff
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,821
|
Two possibilities: (1) a moron who didn't have enough cash for anything else; and (2) a moron who counts on the deterrent effect of having a firearm. Note that the two are not mutually exclusive.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
May 10, 2013, 06:08 PM | #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,820
|
would a single shot 12 gauge was inclusive to the single shot firearm category?
At least i can see t being more formidable and scary to the person on the other end. But the whole idea of a single shot? Agree...just not smart and i hope criminals get dumber...lol
__________________
If you ever have to use a firearm, you don't get to pick the scenario! |
|
|