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Old August 9, 2018, 11:13 PM   #1
m&p45acp10+1
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10mm Powders

I have come into a Kimber 10mm Long Slide Target. When I bought the gun I pick up 300 Star Line cases. 500 Ranier 180 grain hollow points. I already have S&B large pistol primers. Powders I have are as follows:

Blue Dot (I hear it is the cats meow for 10mm.) I have most of a pound of it. Picked up during one of the powder droughts.

Red Dot (have a pound of it. Liked it in .38spcl. light loads. Hate the way it meters in small volume.)

Bull's Eye

HP38

H110

AA#9

HiSkor 800x

The local store has:
Unique

Power Pistol

as well as quite a few I see listed in Lyman 48th, and my Pistol and Revolver 3rd.

I am seasoned as a reloader. I do not know it all. Never will. I consider myself a student of this. I have the plan on using what I have first. Though if there is something that would work that much better I will try to pick it up, and give it a test out.

I fired 50 rounds of factory at the indoor range, and was surprised to recover all 50 cases. In my years of picking up brass at a public range I have maybe found 5 to 10 total 10mm cases. I also know from sorting some brass a couple of months ago I found 3 10mm Auto cases. (So that means that somewhere in the world a guy is laying in bed dreaming of the day he finds those 3 missing cases.LOL)
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Old August 9, 2018, 11:22 PM   #2
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You might check Alliant powder BE-86 on there wed site.
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Old August 9, 2018, 11:32 PM   #3
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You already have the 3 best powders for top-end 10mm performance; the Blue Dot, AA#9, and 800X.
I have used all 3. I find the Blue Dot to be harsher in both recoil and flash than the other two, though all 3 give about the same velocity in my experience.
I use the AA#9 for my heavy hardcast loads (200gr gas check at 1250fps), and the 800X for heavy hollow points (200gr XTP at 1250).
I also use AA#7 for fast, lighter bullets (155gr Gold Dot at 1450, limits over penetration).
You even have the powder I use for supper light target loads, the HP 38. I use 5.0gr under a 180 plated, and it just barely cycles the action reliably.
The 10mm is so versatile! I get to shoot the same gun in competition as I carry in the woods, and in town. Just swap out mags to the appropriate load...
BTW, I'm shooting a Tanfoglio Stock 1. Enjoy!

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Last edited by Astocks2622; August 10, 2018 at 09:01 AM.
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Old August 10, 2018, 12:59 AM   #4
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Another vote for BE-86. It meters very well and is great for a wide range of calibers. Including 10mm.
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Old August 10, 2018, 08:57 AM   #5
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During the time I had my 10mm I fixed on AA 7 for loading.

It did really well.

I later sold the 10mm, but I kept the AA 7 and am now using it in my 41 Mag.
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Old August 10, 2018, 09:55 AM   #6
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800-X used to be THE magic dust for getting velocity from 10mm, especially 180 or 200 grain slugs. And one of the boutique ammo joints (maybe Underwood...?) may actually be using it or had in the past, at least that was the hard speculation...

But there are two things to be very aware of with 800-X. First is that it may actually be the worst metering powder I have ever handled in my time in front of a load bench and I have used somewhere more than two dozen different powders... maybe three dozen, I would have to count. 800-X is a bottle of pure metering tragedy. So, so, so, soooo bad through anything I have ever tried to meter it with. I ended up using a Lee dipper and hand-weighing each charge.

Now I love to experiment but my patience has it's limits. The third of a pound I have left will probably be sitting in my estate one day.

The other issue is the (scant) published data for 800-X doesn't give you a heap of confidence in working with it. Especially the data available from IMR suggests in comparison that you could go FAR higher than what they show as a max but they won't publish it any higher... which we have seen in the past means that their ballisticians simply must have run in to something they saw that they did not like.

If you want to experiment and chase velocity in 10mm and you don't mind treading in to unknown (or at least unpublished...) places and you have good brass and great case head support and a stout gun, and you have patience for hand weighing charges, then 800-X may be the ticket for finding high velocities.

Otherwise...
Save your money and your time and walk right past 800-X.

Myself, I've used more Power Pistol than anything in 10mm, but lots of AA#7, a little AA#9 and just a dusting of Blue Dot. I also use truckloads of Bullseye, but not in 10mm.

Power Pistol is a fine choice if you want a powder that looks and feels like BOMBS going off, even if it isn't breaking any chronograph records.
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Old August 10, 2018, 12:00 PM   #7
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You have Blue Dot, AA#9, and Power Pistol.

You'd be hard-pressed to do better than that.

I load my hot 10mm with AA#7; but I have Glocks 20 & 29; not a Kimber with a 6" bbl. The extra bbl length bodes well for the Blue Dot & #9. (I load all 180gn bullets, btw)

Power Pistol is great too, and will make excellent ammo for your 10mm. But it will come up a little short of max velocity.
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Old August 10, 2018, 09:08 PM   #8
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Sevens I feel you on the hating the way 800x meters. It was my first powder to load with. With .45 ACP JHP it works well if hand weighed. I have over the past 9 years used it two times testing loads with it. Poor metering has kept it on my shelf. I think there is about 13 ounces of the original pound left. I keep saving it as a last resort powder.

I also have Blue Dot. It meters like 800x and Red Dot. At volumes over 3cc's it gets better. In shotgun it meters better due to larger volume being used. I have a Hornady APS that will do the job of sloving the metering issue. At the cost of taking forever. Though it may be a way to expend those 2 cans of awful metering stuff from my shelves. I am going to see if the LGS has any BE-86 or Power Pistol tomorrow.
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Old August 11, 2018, 02:20 PM   #9
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Even before the days of the interweb, I heard horror stories about the metering characteristics of 800X. So I never bought any (it's also in an awkward burn rate range for my loading/shooting style). Unique meters bad enough.

Upon reviewing this thread, I realized that our OP does not have Power Pistol; but has access to it.

I'd strongly recommend getting some. Getting off the subject here a bit; but I assume our OP has an M&P 45 ACP . Power Pistol makes superb full-throttle 45 ACP ammo in both 200 and 230 grains. In my work ups (full-sized 1911), I've pushed 200 XTP's to 1035 f/s with a SD of only 10.76. And 230's to - get this - 971 f/s with a SD of only 7.75. These were 10-round samples. With the 230's if I were to throw out the low (would then be a 9 round sample) the SD drops to 3.03. Fantastic numbers. Please do not chase these velocities. Do your own work ups; using good sense, and looking for signs of pressure. (BTW, I will never drive my Kimber 1911 that hard again.) Point is, some truly high performance ammo can be made using Power Pistol for 45 ACP.

Works fantastic in 9mm, 38+P, 357 & 44 Mag (comes up a little short pushing heavies in the magnums). So yeah. Power Pistol is amazing.

Getting back to 10mm: PP works well and is quite versatile; save for making heavies go full-velocity. But it really shines pushing 165's (which I rarely load). I strongly suspect PP works great in 10mm's little brother the 40 S&W too.

Get some Power Pistol. You won't be disappointed.
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Old August 12, 2018, 01:16 AM   #10
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Power Pistol is sold out at the LGS. I did manage to pick up a can of IMR 4227 though. I have been too busy packing up things in prepping to move. I packed up all of things on my bench I know I will not be using until after the move is done. I will probably get some time in the coming week to do some 10 mm load development.
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Old August 12, 2018, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
I did manage to pick up a can of IMR 4227 though.
I've never used IMR4227. But it's well understood to be a "magnum" propellant; best suited for full-throttle 357, 41, 44, and larger magnum revolvers. Works best with heavy bullets. I don't believe it is commonly used for anything else. Like most powders of its genre, it likes a heavy roll crimp to get a good, consistent ignition, etc. You know, magnum revolver type stuff.
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Old August 12, 2018, 01:11 PM   #12
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You may find the Rainier Bullets are too soft for top velocities and especially accuracy at 10mm velocities. Speer TMJ, and Hornady HAP are a few good choices.

For a common and inexpensive powder in the 10mm, it's hard to beat LONGSHOT. This one has the advantage of a lot of load data being available too.

If you can afford a little more ($$), I have switched to vvN105 for several calibers including the 357 SIG and the 10mm. It's a really great powder for absolute top velocities and has proved very accurate for me as well. It burns super clean and meters like water in my Dillon and RCBS powder measures.

The downside is they have less online data and you need more skill in working up loads on your own.
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Old August 12, 2018, 06:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
For a common and inexpensive powder in the 10mm, it's hard to beat LONGSHOT. This one has the advantage of a lot of load data being available too.
DANG, I cannot believe I forgot to say this... and I have made plenty of great 10mm using Longshot.

Great catch!
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Old August 12, 2018, 07:47 PM   #14
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Blue Dot and LongShot. Hard to beat all-round.
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Old August 13, 2018, 05:21 PM   #15
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I am currently using Power Pistol and am pretty happy with it's performance using 180 grain coated bullets. I do plan to try Longshot in the future as well.
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Old August 16, 2018, 12:13 PM   #16
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I am gong to try to pick up some Power Pistol before I move. I am in process of stocking up on anything I can get. I am moving to the Nebraska panhandle, and it is going to be a very long drive to get to somewhere that is very well stocked.

I have the Blue Dot loads made up. I tested a few at the local outdoor range. They shot well. Accuracy was better than the factory Herter's which make my gun jam up. About ever 3 to 5 of the factory stuff is soft shooting, and the next round will not go into full battery. None of my reloads did that. (I ended testing as the ground was so littered with other brass it was going to be hard going to pick mine out of the rest. (I did fill a gallon bag with mixed brass for something to keep me busy once I get settled in at the new location.)

I have a box of Sig ammo to fire for brass at the indoor range. I will also test the rest of the ammo I made up. I loaded Blue Dot with 9.2 to 9.3 grains. and 9.5 to 9.6 grains. All cycled well, and shot true to the sights at 15 yards.
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Old August 17, 2018, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
The other issue is the (scant) published data for 800-X doesn't give you a heap of confidence in working with it. Especially the data available from IMR suggests in comparison that you could go FAR higher than what they show as a max but they won't publish it any higher... which we have seen in the past means that their ballisticians simply must have run in to something they saw that they did not like.
QuickLOAD's author said the reason this powder and its century-younger brother, as well as the various SR powders, are not in the QL database is the plants making them have changed a number of times and he found the properties among lots to be too inconsistent to risk including them. So I would say that while current data may look low, it may just be contemporary properties versus old lot properties that make the comparison unfavorable.

I notice 800-X, like Trail Boss, is now branded as a Hodgdon powder and no longer as an IMR powder. The source may have moved again, I suppose.
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Old August 24, 2018, 09:22 PM   #18
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I like accurate 9 for my 10 mm 180 grain hard cast coated bullets. They run great in my 1911.
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Old August 25, 2018, 08:41 PM   #19
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+1 more for long shot. Meters well in my dillon and seems to be fairly linear in velocity as you approach max. I may try vvN105 for my hotter loads next. But for hard cast I'm using longshot
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Old August 25, 2018, 10:13 PM   #20
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I picked up a can of AA7 and a can of Power Pistol at the gun show today. It will be a while until I can do any testing. I have taken my bench apart, and everything is packed up for the move to Nebraska. Once I get there I am going to have to go through the process of joining the gun club before I will have a place to shoot. Also starting a new career in a new to me field is going to consume a lot of time. I am hoping to get some shooting in before the weather turns too cold there.
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Old August 26, 2018, 03:40 PM   #21
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Accurate #7 #9
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Old August 29, 2018, 10:49 AM   #22
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Well I picked up a can of AutoComp as well. Now to put it in the box with the rest of my reloading stuff. I have a few more days until the move.

I will be in Alliance, Nebraska when I get to unpack, and put my bench back up. I start at work there on Sept. 10 so it may be a while until I can go through the hurdles of joining the local gun club to be able to access their range. Other than that there is an indoor range about 50 miles away. So it could be while until any further testing is done.
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