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Old June 23, 2019, 08:13 PM   #1
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700 bucks for m44 mosin?

Yesterday there was a gun show in town, I thought I'd stop by to see if I could find any good deals on some milsurps. I met a guy who was selling a good to very good 1945 izzy mosin nagant m44 carbine. He wanted 700 for it. I said I'd give him 400 and he seemed a bit insulted and insisted that it was a antique and rare. On gunbroker the going price seems to be 300-500. Is there any logical reason a m44 is worth 700?
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Old June 23, 2019, 10:15 PM   #2
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I would think the only reason it would worth $700 is because that's how much he wants for it. That being said it is worth $700 only to him.
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Old June 24, 2019, 11:03 AM   #3
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$700?! HA! Unless the rifle is INSANELY good condition, the guy is delusional.
Unfortunately, gun shows are attracting more and more dirtbags who are looking to make a sale (i.e. rip off) of that one person who doesn't know any better. My dad, who is fed up seeing this happen over the years, just bought "The Blue Book for Guns" so he can shove it in the face of the seller and show them how much they are kidding themselves. I doubt it'll change anything though. Personally, I just laugh in their face when they try to sell me on an overpriced item and I walk away.
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Old June 24, 2019, 11:18 AM   #4
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It must be the gold platted one they gave the Tzar ? -- LOL
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Old June 24, 2019, 01:31 PM   #5
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They're going for a lot more than they used to. Look at sold transactions on GunBroker and they all seem high.

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Old June 24, 2019, 05:05 PM   #6
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Every surplus rifle that was at this gun show seemed to be about 300-500 dollars over priced. I suppose gun broker or classic (when they are in stock) is the place to go. Quite sad actually.
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Old June 24, 2019, 09:57 PM   #7
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Gun shows seem to be hit or miss for me. After several depressing ones, I wrote them off for a few years. Then on a whim I went to one with my daughter a couple of years ago and was pleasantly surprised. I saw several carcanos for 300 or less. Swiss milsurps were expensive but I saw some darn good shape German k98s for 700 to 800. A good shape 24/47 with matching numbers was sold for 350 (I thought that was a steal but I already have one numbers matching).

Then I went a year later with my son. Sucked again. Not much milsurp there, but whatever was had a 50% price premium. On a whim I asked one guy who had a non matching 91/30 he wanted 500 for if he would take 350. I was told price was absolutely non negotiable. I laughed at him.
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Old June 24, 2019, 10:38 PM   #8
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The market is going up.

A rifle is worth whatever the seller can get out of it.

M44s and M38s are more desirable than 91/30s.

If I took my (1946) M38 to a gun show, you can bet your butt that I'd have a ridiculous price on it. People 'in the know' would walk on by, or possibly make "insultingly low" offers.
But people that just want the coolest, least-abused Russian rifle since the Tzar was murdered might feel good about being able to chew me down to just $650.

Market price is what the fool with the most cash in his pocket is willing to give.
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Old June 25, 2019, 12:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
just bought "The Blue Book for Guns" so he can shove it in the face of the seller and show them how much they are kidding themselves.
there is another side to this coin. The Blue Book has been a standard GENERAL reference for generations. It is useful, but it is not (and never was) Holy Writ.

First, the prices are at least a year, and sometimes two or more out of date. This comes from the pre-electronic era when it took more than a few mouseclicks to gather the data, and then published. The other thing is there was, and still is regional market differences. Less so today with the Internet allowing shopping all over, and tending to level regional price differences, but they still exist for many guns, simply due to their popularity in various local areas.

The other side of the coin I mentioned is sellers who think that every piece of dreck they have is worth full "book value". I've seen this a lot, as well.

Seen guns sit and sit, show after show, because the guy thinks he has to have "book value" and no body is willing to pay that much for what he has.

Every old gun is NOT a valuable rare antique. It MAY be, or it may just be old junk no one wants anymore. Simply put, collectable (anything) firearms are only valuable and collectable if someone WANTS them. A gun featured in a popular movie may get a sudden boost with people wanting them that never before did, and willing to pay above market rate to get one.

One of the most famous examples was the S&W M29 Dirty Harry "syndrome". S&W had been making the gun since the later 1950s, and sales were steady enough, but not huge. Dirty Harry (71) changed that. Almost overnight everyone wanted one. S&W would sell you one, for the MSRP of $238.50, but you had to wait your turn and S&W had so many orders the backlog was over two years in the mid 70s. So the market did what it always does, supply and demand capitalism. I watched a friend of mine buy a nickel 6" M29 in 76, and happily paid the demanded $450 when the MSRP was $238.50, because that price got him his gun TODAY not two years+ from now.

SO, is ANY M44 worth $700? not to me, but then I had more than a few (and the better M38) for $75 in ages past. Sold my last one a few years ago for $450. If I still had it today, I'd happily sell it for $650, if you were foolish enough to pay that.
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Old June 26, 2019, 01:17 PM   #10
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Gun shows are like that. The guy will be lugging it back and forth for eons. Lotta guys think their particular rifle is worth a pile of money after they refurbish 'em too. (There was a guy at a local show up here who thought the beat up M1 Rifles he had were worth what he saw on-line in USD. He carried 'em and the $4Cdn each clips he had back and forth for more than 2 years.) Cabela's had beat up M1's they thought were worth $775US too. Not recently.
The Blue Book gives averages from all over the U.S. with no regard for local supply and demand. It's at least two out of date as it takes that long to compile the data and publish. Like 44 says, the 'be all and end all' authority it ain't.
Shoving a copy of anything in a sellers face at a gun show will get you escorted out and told not to come back.
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Old June 26, 2019, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
If I took my (1946) M38 to a gun show, you can bet your butt that I'd have a ridiculous price on it.
M38 production was discontinued in 1945
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Old June 26, 2019, 07:58 PM   #12
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M38 production was discontinued in 1945
According to the internet, it was.

My rifle disagrees. It shows no evidence of being converted from an M44 barrel or cut down from a 91/30, does not have the Czech star found on 91/38s, is configured correctly for a 1945(+) Izhevsk M38, and is clearly stamped 1946, Izhevsk.

Is it hard to believe that the data on the interwebs has been compiled based only on what people have seen and heard, and then set as "fact", since actual records were probably never released (or kept properly) by the Soviets? ... And that the data now accepted as "fact" might actually have some holes in it...?

Even in the civilized world, these things pop up.

I owned a Mossberg 800 that appeared to be a parts gun. The serial number made it probably a '70. It had parts variations that spanned from '68 to '73. The model designation didn't make sense (scoped, sporter stock with Mannlicher designation, with varmint barrel?...). And it didn't officially leave the factory until '78 (after the bankruptcy, and most of that building being destroyed in a fire).
It turned out to be a prototype. It was one of one. That's why no one could figure out what it was, until the Mossberg historical society ran across a note about a "Scoped Police" model prototype that was assembled in '73 and matched what I had in my hands.

My brother received the first - possibly only - Ruger Hawkeye African Laminate to leave the factory. No, not the African that you can buy now. This was stainless, laminate, triple scope bases, iron sights, no brake, and Ruger killed the model JUST as production started. The figures that were relayed to me were, if I remember correctly: 27 Left-handed models produced, and 6 (just six) Right-handed - all in .375 Ruger.
The first right-handed example was obtained by my brother, because he was offered anything in production at "cost" (ended up at $297, shipped, I believe), at just the right time to snag one.
We have never heard of the others ever leaving the factory. ...But it is possible.

Ask anyone, including Ruger, if such a beast was ever made, and they'll tell you that you're talking about a modified Alaskan. But call Ruger with his serial number, and it turns into, "Hold on just a moment, please. I need to check with my supervisor..."
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Old June 26, 2019, 08:55 PM   #13
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Don't care to see the Mossberg or the Ruger, I'll take your word. But that Mosin, the 1946 M38, I would have to see to believe.

Strange things do happen. I have the only Finn P-28 in existence, to my knowledge. So it could be possible. I'd just have to see it. Thanks
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Old June 27, 2019, 04:40 AM   #14
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It seems these guns sell for whatever the market will bear. I’m old enough to remember when Springfield Sporters Inc. sold them for under $20. They never interested me as I was weaned on ‘03-A3 Springfield rifles and M-1 Carbines...
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Old July 7, 2019, 03:05 PM   #15
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Just went to another gun show, Romanian m44 for sale, I think it is a m44 or is it called a m53 if its romanian? anyway I picked it up for 350, clean, no import marks, matching. I think that is a lot better of a price than 700 haha.
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Old July 8, 2019, 12:24 AM   #16
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I'm looking for a Tsarist Mosin to include in my WWI rifle collection. I seem to be late to the party. I would also like to have a Finn Mosin, to honor the late Simo Häyhä. Those seem to have been 'discovered' as well.

One of those sorts might cost $700. But a WWII Mosin? Have to have papers showing it belonged to someone historical.
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Old July 8, 2019, 11:43 AM   #17
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Russian w/o import stamp in mint condition could fetch $700.
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Old July 8, 2019, 04:52 PM   #18
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Generally speaking, an imported gun without import markings either got into the US before 1968, or was brought in a personal item, such as a "war trophy" bringback.

So, all the lack of an importer's name and address means is that the gun was not imported for commercial sale after 1968.

Collectors, being the funny folk they are, sometimes consider such things important enough to pay more for guns with or without certain markings.

Most of us who are not as interested in completely period correct but interested in having a working example of a type, don't care much if it has or doesn't have certain specific markings.

Where we bump heads with sellers is when they put collector high prices on stuff that isn't the rare piece collectors will pay more for, but they think it is.

and as to the actual $ amount being asked? Considering the generations long slide in the value of our money, $700 now, might be stupid, but same gun another 20 years down the road? Maybe not so much.

I sold a pristine M38 that I paid $75 for in the 80s (or maybe early 90s, I forget..) for $450, and the buyer was happy. SO, $700 for a run of the mill today? no way. In 2040? (or sooner), who knows??

Some of us still remember gas at less than $0.50 per gallon and a McD buger at $0.20 What we don't remember as well was you doing fairly well if you were making $75 a week with a family of four to feed.
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Old July 8, 2019, 08:49 PM   #19
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Charging 2040 prices in 2019 is quite a markup. But as other members stated, and now i realize, he was probably hoping to find someone who wanted a m44 very very badly.

Does anyone know why the m44 imports have completely stopped? The m91/30's are slowly being dripped into the market at the moment. But the m44 market seems to be completely empty. Besides individual sellers. Do you think the exsoviet countries are out of em?
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Old July 9, 2019, 08:08 AM   #20
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"Personally, I just laugh in their face when they try to sell me on an overpriced item and I walk away." I use to do this then I just quit going. The only guy getting a deal at a gun show is the guy collecting the money at the door.


Back to the OP's question, I just don't see $700 for a M44. Prices in your area may be different but they don't get that hi here even at inflated gun show prices.
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Old July 9, 2019, 10:03 AM   #21
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I was at Cabela's a few days ago and they were selling beat up round receiver M91/30s for $350, $399 for slightly less beat up ones. I don't think they even came with any of the kit. It was only like 5 years ago that I spent $130 on a hex receiver M91/30 in excellent condition with all the kit, and people then were complaining about the high prices because they weren't $75 any more!
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Old July 9, 2019, 10:27 AM   #22
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I'd just took a look at GB... Wow...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/818245500 $705 for a Polish???
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Old July 9, 2019, 12:31 PM   #23
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I would remind you all that Gunbroker is an auction site. Often overly high priced items go unsold, and sometimes the price is driven up by bidding wars between just a handful of people.

The trouble is, that once some gun sells for $XXX, no matter what artificial conditions got the price that high, the rest of the sellers think, and act like every gun of that type (no matter variation or condition) is now "worth" at least that much!!

It's not a new thing, it just hits some guns later than others, or people don't really notice it, until it is done to a gun they are interested in.

Saw a guy doing that once, sort of. Long time back, now. Was at a show, and a seller was in the middle of adding $100 to the price of everything he had that said Winchester on it. From old collectable lever guns, to brand new unfired in the box, he was bumping the price up $100 on all of them, because Winchester had just announced they were closing the factory.
"Winchester's goin out of business, so now, these are all gonna be COLLECTIBLES!!" was his reasoning.

Offered to make me a deal, sell me the 9410 I had been casually looking at, for the "old" price...(which was stupidly high already)...I passed.
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Old July 9, 2019, 11:38 PM   #24
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Off subject but the m44 I just got for a decent deal at another gun show has some white filling in the serial numbers and rear sight numbers. My old m91/30 also has this in it. What was the point in putting that stuff in there? and is there any down side to scrape it out, I dont really care for it.
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Old July 10, 2019, 08:13 AM   #25
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I hate that white paint. Old time collectors and current dealers do that to make it readable. That and the never ending quest to 'improve' an old gun. When ever I post regarding this mini abomination, I get lambasted by the old collectors with a safe full of whited out letters. Lets see what happens today.
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