USGI M1 Carbine Value

[ADClope]

Hello all,

I've got an M1 Garand and an 03a3.

I would like to add a nice M1 Carbine as well.

I live in central IL and Simpsons LTD is close by. They have some really nice one's, but it seems like along with them being really nice, the price is also pretty steep.

To be fair, most of them appear to be mostly "correct" if not mostly original.

I guess I don't mind paying the price if the price is fair for what the rifle is, just wanted to check with you all, the prices seem to have jumped significantly on the carbines in recent years.

There are a few winchesters, a few IBM's and a couple Inlands. All in very good shape, but all in the $1800 - $2800 range...

[shuvelrider]

That is the "smokin crack " price, even for being correct. Study and do your homework, many of the carbine contractors shared their parts with each other during the war. Even Winchester carbines are not 100% in house parts, but people buy the name and that gets spendy. Carbines are a study unto themselves, so educate yourself and shop around. The internet can be very helpful to find a forum/information site.

[RickB]

I would be EXTREMELY suspicious of any "correct" M1 Carbine.
Seriously, if there's not documentation showing the gun being released to a retiring officer in 1945, or some such, I would not buy any story of originality, especially when such stories add $1000 or more to the price tag.

I'd be inclined to look for a gun that is correctly rebuilt - adjustable rear sight, bayonet lug, M2 mag catch, round bolt, rebuild stamp(s), etc. - as being more likely authentic USGI, and no need to buy a story of originality.

[ADClope]

Thanks guys for the info.

I understand your points on parts variation.

With zero documentation or any sort of provenance, I guess what would be a fair price for a correctly built carbine?

[RickB]

I always go to gunbroker and check the bids for what I'm interested in.
Starting bids set by sellers are never a good indicator; they're often 25%-200% higher than what guns are really worth.

[T. O'Heir]

Don't get wrapped up in the whole "correct" stuff. A "correct" carbine has been made that way by somebody with too much time and money. None of the original makers made all of the parts so there's really no such thing anyway. Carbine parts were made by hordes of small shops all over the Eastern Seaboard.
"...released to a retiring officer..." Rumoured to be "purchased only". Never seen any documentation of that myself, but no troopie, commissioned or not, was allowed to keep his issued weapon. Means there's no such thing as a 'Bring back' either.
No documentation means just that, so buy the rifle not the story. Lotta dealers are bad for making stuff up about milsurps in general.
"...$1800 - $2800 range..." Lots of Carbines on Gunbroker at far less. Some are well under a grand.
Simpsons LTD is showing Carbines at lees than $1800 too. Their prices are high though.

[mapsjanhere]

We sold a lot of "correct" carbines at gun shows through the late 2000s. Correct because a friend had bought tons of parts kits from CMP over the years, and when he tried to get his garage back we mixed and matched as best as possible. Of course, at the time a run of the mill one sold for $600 and the best ones brought $1000 from the few that cared.

[fourbore]

Any US mil surp in collector grade will be price high and if the buyer is not on top of his game, he will most likely be SCREWED. It is sad reality of this hobby. I may be looking for carbine or a 1903. It really a shame, I may pass on the carbines right now.

I suggest for a carbine price, figure $1000 for a good shooter and forget the parts matching. Anyone who says that is way too high, damn well better post some sources of actual guns with prices. I heard the BS before. I can believe 10-20% either way.

The carbines are super hot right now. Super hot. Not even high demand, beyond hi, super. Either you wait, or pay. Or hope to cheat someone and I know that is not the OP's intention. But; it seems all to frequently the goal in this hobby from either seller or buyer.

I have heard of Simpsons and agree with prior post. They are high by reputation. I think they have an honest reputation. So; if they price at 1800, you might resell on GB for 1200? They got to run a business too. Say 30% is markup for ignorance. It is probably fair. I would rather get a shooter.

There is a big time local (no internet) dealer who over the last 12 months I seen prices creep up, 900, 1000 and last week 1100. They just keep selling. All he can get, they all sell.

And this is way off topic but same deal with Swiss k31. Absolutely no matter how high the price any dealer asks they 100% sell. Either you pay US GI milsurp price for a Swiss novelty or you skip it and move on.

[fourbore]

Cabelas ( I know, sorry to even mention) has a mix master $1300 and I know it will sell. At that price point, a better than original, Fulton Armory carbine at $1500 looks pretty darn good. It sounds crazy, but; you know you are getting quality. No surprise. And resale should be better than simpson or cabelas.

I honestly dont know, I am in the same position right now. Like I said, I may simply pass on the whole carbine situation.

[Erno86]

There's James River Armory...located in Burgaw, North Carolina.

[Jim Watson]

We sold a lot of "correct" carbines at gun shows through the late 2000s. Correct because a friend had bought tons of parts kits from CMP over the years, and when he tried to get his garage back we mixed and matched as best as possible.

A gun show wheeler dealer did that with Garands. At the time, the CMP limit was five rifles per member, so he signed up his whole family and bought 25 guns and some spare parts. Mixing and matching left him with five or six "correct" rifles with all parts of the same make and period. Those he sold for a large profit, sold the rest of the ordinary mixed guns for a small profit, kept one for himself pretty much free.

[mapsjanhere]

Don't remind me of the Garands, we had a guy argue for 2h that the op rod on a Winchester had the wrong cut shape for the year. Dug through the spare parts box, found the one he claimed correct and brought it the next day. Guy bought the gun with the wrong op rod after all because that op rod listed for $20 more than the other. He'd just tried to get a discount for "not correct".

[Ibmikey]

Got an “all correct” ( all other parts check out ok) Rockola from the daughter of a Pacific vet who brought it home in his duffel bag. He disass emblem it and did not have room for the stock, it remained without a stock for many years when he finally found an Inland stock. After taking possession I searched and found a correct era Rockola marked stock that (at that time) was reasonably priced. Now the Rockola is a “correct” unit once again.

[44 AMP]

I thought M1 carbines were overpriced back when they hit $500, but that's just me, and I'm not a carbine fan.

I would point out that when it comes to US GI weapons, there are two different classes of "correct".

There is "correct as originally issued" meaning the way it left the factory, with all the same manufacturer's parts, etc.,

and there is "correct as maintained in service". This includes all the "mixmaster" guns, with parts from different makers. These guns ARE historically correct, they just aren't the most desirable "original issue condition" guns.

I guarantee you that any repair the military ever did to the gun was not done with ANY consideration to "matching mfg" parts.

You got an M1, Winchester made. You need an op rod. There is NO "winchchester op rod" in the supply system, there is only M1 op rod, stock# xxxx-xx-xxxx. The repairman gets what ever the supply system sends him. This is the whole point of mil-spec, so that it doesn't matter who made the part, it will fit and work, if its in spec.

A fully original weapon in original issue condition has more value to a collector than a weapon that has been "restored" to original issue condition, because the original retained its condition, making it a more rare item.

if there is documentation stating the gun left the service in such and such condition, then you have something to assign a value to. Otherwise, there's no proof and you are paying for someone's story. To me, without supporting proof, no story is worth several hundred dollars, but, that's just me..

[RickB]

In the case of the M1 Carbine, the guns were mixmasters from the get-go; I don't think any one company made every part, and one "prime contractor", Quality Hardware, made only receivers.
A gun with rebuild stamps and all "late" parts is more likely to be a complete, authentic U.S.G.I. gun than a Carbine advertised as "original" in 1942-45 configuration.

[mapsjanhere]

As for "historically correct, mine is lacquered, reblued, and has the bayonet lug removed. All well documented for guns issued by the US Army to Bavarian prison guards, who, as part of civilian law enforcement, were not issued bayonets. No longer "as produced" but they actually sold at CMP auctions for double the price as GI carbines at the time

[Reloadron]

Here in my area of Cleveland, Ohio they show up at the larger and better gun shows anywhere in the $800 to $1200 price range. Not to say they sell for $1200 but I have seen nicer ones change hands in the $1000 price range. I figure it this way, on any given day any gun is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, no more and no less. There is no way that I would pop the $1800 to $2800 price mentioned. I forget who made the one in my safe but I regret parting with a nice little Quality Hardware one I sold years ago to a friend who offered more than it was worth at the time.

Ron

[highpower3006]

I have a couple M1 Carbines, a Standard Products and a Underwood. I picked up the Underwood a couple of years ago for $600. It is the usual mix of parts on a post war refurb and is a very nice shooter. I think I got a pretty good deal on it and would buy them all day for that much. For me to buy one for any amount over $1200, it would have to be an extremely nice carbine and at $2800, I would pass as I have many other firearms that I would rather own for that much money.

[T. O'Heir]

"...brought it home in his duffel bag..." As in stolen. Nobody will come looking for it though.
"...Got an “all correct” ( all other parts check out ok) Rock-Ola..." No such thing. They made 13 of the parts including the receivers.
"..."original issue condition" guns..." No telling who made the parts in one of 'em. None of the original manufacturers made all the parts. Parts were made in small shops all over the Eastern seaboard of the U.S.
There is no such thing as a Carbine with "all the same manufacturer's parts". There was no manufacturer that made all the parts. 61 of 'em, as I recall.
"..."correct as maintained in service"..." Means it works the way it's supposed to and is safe to shoot.