.40 S&W question

The specialist · May 28, 2000, 09:49 PM

I wanted to try a different weight bullet, I have been using the 180gr win jfp. I was looking at the 155gr Ranier fp. My problem is that inthe Lyman pistol and revolver book they only list data for 150gr jacketed not 155gr. The 150gr starting data is 4.9gr Bullseye with a max of 5.7gr. Next is data for the 170gr jacketed starting at 4.4gr and max of 5.4 gr again with Accurate Bullseye. My question is using the 155gr bullet where should my starting grains with Bullseye be? Can anyone help me?? I was thinking starting at 4.7 gr.with a max of 5.5. Or should I use the 150gr data???? HELP me please.

SKR · May 28, 2000, 11:13 PM

http://www.again.net/~steve/page8a.htm

Banzai · May 29, 2000, 09:50 AM

Buy another reloading manual, it'll open your eyes and options quite a bit. I would suggest Lee, Sierra, or the Speer.

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!
Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

The specialist · May 29, 2000, 11:07 AM

In Mr. Burns voice "Excellent". Thanks SKR great link, it's in my favorites now.

**Mal H** · May 29, 2000, 11:46 AM

specialist - Please be aware that the 155 gr. Rainier is not the same as a 155 gr. jacketed bullet. The Rainier's have a thin copper plating, not a copper jacket. I would use loads designated for hard cast bullets instead of those for jacketed bullets. A quick glance at SKR's loads indicate that they are for jacketed bullets only. Using the max. load will not necessarily be dangerous, but you will have higher vel. than expected and more wasted powder.

I also feel SKR's data is much too general in nature. A 230 gr. bullet from one manufacturer, for example, is not the same as a 230 gr. bullet from another and should not be blindly loaded the same.

SKR · May 29, 2000, 12:18 PM

Mal,

That is why God created "starting loads", and any of the minimum loads I have posted on my pages are safe with ANY bullet of that weight, regardless of manufacturer, profile, or construction.

It is the reloader's responsibility to watch his reloading progress, and stop whenever ANYTHING abnormal occurs.

Now, for those who insist on starting at maximum loads, I feel they deserve all they get from their lack of common sense...

**Mal H** · May 29, 2000, 02:02 PM

I agree fully with your statements. However, there are those who read these forums who have far less experience than you or I and they may not even be TFL members or read every post here. I also know there are those who think that max loads are a good starting point. Yes, that is a good substitute for more chlorine in the gene pool, but I don't necessarily want anyone to get hurt with incorrect information. I stand by my observation of your data. You'll note I didn't say not to use it, but not to use it blindly. Double checking with another data set would be in order.

Tree Rat · May 31, 2000, 03:40 PM

specialist - While Mal H`s comment concerning differences in plated (Rainier) and jacketed bullets is generally accepted as true, the following is my pet load for the Rainier 155 FP:
6.6 gr Universal
Fed 1X Brass
Fed 100
Rainier 155 FP
1.126 OAL
.420 Crimp
Averages 1205 fps out of an H&K USP with no pressure signs or leading. This is considered a maximum load so work up slowly and carefully (.02 gr increments suggested) Tree Rat.

The specialist · May 31, 2000, 04:03 PM

Thanks for all the input. I generally start right at the bottom, make about twenty rounds, try them out. If they are functioning properly and the accuracy is good I stay there. I don't try to make loads that will take a fly off the paper at 70', not yet at least. I primarily make them so that I can shoot more and work on my technique without costing me a bundle. I appreciate all help and especially all concern for safety.

Banzai · May 31, 2000, 08:04 PM

For plated bullets, use the start load for regular copper jackets as your max load, and you'll always be safe.

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!
Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

nwgunman · June 1, 2000, 12:31 PM

The specialist: Want to have some REAL fun? Buy several re-loading manuals and some straight from the powder manufacturers and then check out the widely varying charges shown for some powder/bullets combinations. For example, Speer (vol 13) shows a max load for .40S&W with Alliant Power Pistol using a 155gr bullet as 9.0 gr. The Alliant manual shows a max load of 8.2 gr with a 150 gr bullet! Wild, eh? Almost a full grain difference in a small, high pressure case like the .40S&W is a bunch. Normally a lighter bullet will allow a heavier charge, so go figure. It really pays to go easy and use caution. Stay safe.

[This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited June 01, 2000).]

Tree Rat · June 1, 2000, 03:05 PM

nwgunman - Dont forget the complete lack of seating depth some pubs are guilty of doing. Lymans Pistol or 47th reloading manuals gives all SAMMI data for case dimension and crimp. The load data is VERY coservative though. Tree Rat.

Big Bunny · June 1, 2000, 06:26 PM

Amen to that....three cheers for all such 'starting loads' - we should all use them as well as OAL minimums too. Trouble is - who do you believe?

ADI ('Hogden' in USA) in OZ do a useful powder equivalents table including all manufacturers and while a 10% safety margin is always advisable, I find it is a good guide for "obsolete" powders which you want to use, having 10lb of the stuff on the shelf !

Perhaps e-mail ADI for a copy, I find them always helpful when I contact them.

I had the same problem with only AA powders being listed with 155 SWC linotype on the LEE Precision info given with my die box. With the help of the ADI scale I converted it to W540 (of which I have a lot) and was very pleased with the result, after having brass damage and too violent ejection problems with HP Magtech(CBC Brazil) factory loads.

The 'starting load' of 6.7gn W540 worked just fine and is now being used in bulk....no change contemplated to a higher one at present. No reason to...

------------------
***Big Bunny***

Big Bunny · June 1, 2000, 06:36 PM

SKR I have just viewed your info -thank you and I feel OAL as well as primer should be listed. Also the loads are a trifle high in my opinion for starter loads.

My 5c worth only.

SKR · June 1, 2000, 10:47 PM

Big Bunny,

I have the primer of choice listed for each load.

As for OAL, that is dependant upon the particular firearm being used, as well as the bullet type and manufacture.

That information, along with velocity and pressures, is up to the user to measure.

As for your statement as to the starting loads being high, they aren't...check them against other sources...if anything they are on the conservative side.

[This message has been edited by SKR (edited June 01, 2000).]

May 28, 2000, 09:49 PM	#1
The specialist Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2000 Location: boston,MA,USA Posts: 237	I wanted to try a different weight bullet, I have been using the 180gr win jfp. I was looking at the 155gr Ranier fp. My problem is that inthe Lyman pistol and revolver book they only list data for 150gr jacketed not 155gr. The 150gr starting data is 4.9gr Bullseye with a max of 5.7gr. Next is data for the 170gr jacketed starting at 4.4gr and max of 5.4 gr again with Accurate Bullseye. My question is using the 155gr bullet where should my starting grains with Bullseye be? Can anyone help me?? I was thinking starting at 4.7 gr.with a max of 5.5. Or should I use the 150gr data???? HELP me please.

May 28, 2000, 11:13 PM	#2
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	http://www.again.net/~steve/page8a.htm

May 29, 2000, 09:50 AM	#3
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	Buy another reloading manual, it'll open your eyes and options quite a bit. I would suggest Lee, Sierra, or the Speer. Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration! You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed! Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

May 29, 2000, 11:07 AM	#4
The specialist Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2000 Location: boston,MA,USA Posts: 237	In Mr. Burns voice "Excellent". Thanks SKR great link, it's in my favorites now.

May 29, 2000, 11:46 AM	#5
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	specialist - Please be aware that the 155 gr. Rainier is not the same as a 155 gr. jacketed bullet. The Rainier's have a thin copper plating, not a copper jacket. I would use loads designated for hard cast bullets instead of those for jacketed bullets. A quick glance at SKR's loads indicate that they are for jacketed bullets only. Using the max. load will not necessarily be dangerous, but you will have higher vel. than expected and more wasted powder. I also feel SKR's data is much too general in nature. A 230 gr. bullet from one manufacturer, for example, is not the same as a 230 gr. bullet from another and should not be blindly loaded the same.

May 29, 2000, 12:18 PM	#6
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	Mal, That is why God created "starting loads", and any of the minimum loads I have posted on my pages are safe with ANY bullet of that weight, regardless of manufacturer, profile, or construction. It is the reloader's responsibility to watch his reloading progress, and stop whenever ANYTHING abnormal occurs. Now, for those who insist on starting at maximum loads, I feel they deserve all they get from their lack of common sense...

May 29, 2000, 02:02 PM	#7
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	I agree fully with your statements. However, there are those who read these forums who have far less experience than you or I and they may not even be TFL members or read every post here. I also know there are those who think that max loads are a good starting point. Yes, that is a good substitute for more chlorine in the gene pool, but I don't necessarily want anyone to get hurt with incorrect information. I stand by my observation of your data. You'll note I didn't say not to use it, but not to use it blindly. Double checking with another data set would be in order.

May 31, 2000, 03:40 PM	#8
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	specialist - While Mal H`s comment concerning differences in plated (Rainier) and jacketed bullets is generally accepted as true, the following is my pet load for the Rainier 155 FP: 6.6 gr Universal Fed 1X Brass Fed 100 Rainier 155 FP 1.126 OAL .420 Crimp Averages 1205 fps out of an H&K USP with no pressure signs or leading. This is considered a maximum load so work up slowly and carefully (.02 gr increments suggested) Tree Rat.

May 31, 2000, 04:03 PM	#9
The specialist Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2000 Location: boston,MA,USA Posts: 237	Thanks for all the input. I generally start right at the bottom, make about twenty rounds, try them out. If they are functioning properly and the accuracy is good I stay there. I don't try to make loads that will take a fly off the paper at 70', not yet at least. I primarily make them so that I can shoot more and work on my technique without costing me a bundle. I appreciate all help and especially all concern for safety.

May 31, 2000, 08:04 PM	#10
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	For plated bullets, use the start load for regular copper jackets as your max load, and you'll always be safe. Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration! You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed! Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

June 1, 2000, 12:31 PM	#11
nwgunman Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 1999 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 312	The specialist: Want to have some REAL fun? Buy several re-loading manuals and some straight from the powder manufacturers and then check out the widely varying charges shown for some powder/bullets combinations. For example, Speer (vol 13) shows a max load for .40S&W with Alliant Power Pistol using a 155gr bullet as 9.0 gr. The Alliant manual shows a max load of 8.2 gr with a 150 gr bullet! Wild, eh? Almost a full grain difference in a small, high pressure case like the .40S&W is a bunch. Normally a lighter bullet will allow a heavier charge, so go figure. It really pays to go easy and use caution. Stay safe. [This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited June 01, 2000).]

June 1, 2000, 03:05 PM	#12
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	nwgunman - Dont forget the complete lack of seating depth some pubs are guilty of doing. Lymans Pistol or 47th reloading manuals gives all SAMMI data for case dimension and crimp. The load data is VERY coservative though. Tree Rat.

June 1, 2000, 06:26 PM	#13
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Amen to that....three cheers for all such 'starting loads' - we should all use them as well as OAL minimums too. Trouble is - who do you believe? ADI ('Hogden' in USA) in OZ do a useful powder equivalents table including all manufacturers and while a 10% safety margin is always advisable, I find it is a good guide for "obsolete" powders which you want to use, having 10lb of the stuff on the shelf ! Perhaps e-mail ADI for a copy, I find them always helpful when I contact them. I had the same problem with only AA powders being listed with 155 SWC linotype on the LEE Precision info given with my die box. With the help of the ADI scale I converted it to W540 (of which I have a lot) and was very pleased with the result, after having brass damage and too violent ejection problems with HP Magtech(CBC Brazil) factory loads. The 'starting load' of 6.7gn W540 worked just fine and is now being used in bulk....no change contemplated to a higher one at present. No reason to... ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 1, 2000, 06:36 PM	#14
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	SKR I have just viewed your info -thank you and I feel OAL as well as primer should be listed. Also the loads are a trifle high in my opinion for starter loads. My 5c worth only.

June 1, 2000, 10:47 PM	#15
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	Big Bunny, I have the primer of choice listed for each load. As for OAL, that is dependant upon the particular firearm being used, as well as the bullet type and manufacture. That information, along with velocity and pressures, is up to the user to measure. As for your statement as to the starting loads being high, they aren't...check them against other sources...if anything they are on the conservative side. [This message has been edited by SKR (edited June 01, 2000).]