Rescue Mission. Savage 24V needs lots of help

hal9000 · January 12, 2014, 09:41 PM

Hi all, I got the itch to build an emergency/pack rifle the other night so I went on the hunt for a good starter and 24 hours later, Voila! I came across this shining (ahem) example.

It's a Savage 24V series B, chambered in .222/20 ga; SN 12044. I did a little horse trading and got the gun for about as close to free as you can get without actually being there, so I can't complain about the missing parts too much I suppose. Anyway, this gun is less than complete, but the barrels look clean so I'm off to the races looking for parts and knowledge. I'll probably place an order in the next day or two, but if anybody has spares lying around that you want to get rid of, maybe we can work something out.

Here's a list of what's missing.
1) .222 firing pin
2) Both firing pin springs
3) Firing pin retainer plate
4) Trigger guard and screws
5) Forend stock assembly
6) Extractor assembly and 1 extractor lever retaining screw
7) Barrel band/front sight
8) Buttplate/liner/screws

Now the questions (and really the reason for this post):

Once I get it together, I'll focus on making it nice. Since it needs to be refinished I'll probably hit it with some cerakote or something similar, and strip restain the stock. Since I want this to break down, I was considering trying to track down a camper model stock (at least at the fore end since that's missing) but I don't know if the C stock is compatible with the 24V. Has anybody done a conversion?

I'm also planning to bob the barrels down to about 20" to match the buttstock length when broken down. The easiest way to do this would be to remove the barrels from the barrel block so I can cut/recrown in my lathe. Does anybody know the process for this gun? It looks like there was a cross pin (which has also been removed) to hold them in, but I'm not sure if the barrels just pull out of the block.

The shotgun barrel appears/feels to be cylinder bore, though I havent but a gauge in it. I'd like to have the option of a choke and was considering a poly choke, but I've never used one and don't know about the OD. Does anybody know if there's a polychoke that would clear the upper barrel (there's only about 1mm clearance between the two)? Since I'm cutting it I suppose I could just cut the .222 barrel a tad shorter for clearance, but I'd prefer to keep them the same length if possible.

Thanks everyone and sorry for the long post!

Scorch · January 13, 2014, 01:33 AM

First off, congratulations on your project gun.

Unfortunately, you are missing most of the gun. Good thing there is Numrich Arms. By the time you get all the missing parts, you should be into the gun for about $300.

As far as bobbing the barrels, consider this:
* The barrels are brazed together, so no, you cannot just pull them out and chuck them up in your lathe.
* The wall thickness on the shotgun will probably not be thick enough for choke tubes, and a PolyChoke would be an atrocity.

Good luck on your project! Visit the gun shows and do some trading and you could have it all together for about $200-ish.

HiBC · January 13, 2014, 05:08 AM

I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything..you do it your way.

If you have access to a Bridgeport type mill,I have squared and crowned a number of barrels by swinging the ram off to one side and hanging the barrel off the side of the table,verticle.I have a precision angle plate with a vee groove in it that makes this easy.A large ball mill spots a [pretty good recess crown.

Brownells used to offer a solder on choke tube sleeve.It takes Tru-Choke,slips over the OD of a barrel.You may have to carefully bore the id of this choke sleeve to fit your barrel.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...-prod7754.aspx

OOPS!It seems they offer 12 ga,and you have a 20.

But,instead of editing this idea out,I'll leave it.If you are pretty good with that lathe...I'd look for a chunk of the right size seamless drawn chrome moly aircraft tube,bore and single point thread it to fit the choke tube of your choice.The idea is still good.If you buy 3 feet of tube,you can try several times!Aircraft Spruce or MSC might have some tube.

Make up a split figure 8 barrels clamp to go just behind the soldered on sleeve,rather like the typical barrel/mag tube band on a lever action.and work an interal sling swivel QD mount in it.Maybe do not split the very bottom.Your clamp screw ,between the barrels,can engage a slight notch in the barrels.With a little Loc tite bearing mount,it will be stable.

I think if you then mount a nice old ramp front sight base cut to match the length of the choke tube sleeve,the cosmetcs will come together.

You may have to ball mill the underside radius to match sight base/barrel.I think the 400 ish deg f Brownell's Hi-force 44 solder will do,and a blind .093 dowel won't hurt.

That how I put the ramp back on my 44 mag Super Blackhawk long ago when I cut the bbl.The same solder ought to be great for the choke sleeve.

Even Numrich advertises on e-bay.I have found parts for a first series circa 1920 Winchester 52(barrel band and original ladder type sight,trigger and sear,pre speed lock),a Remington 513T,and a Remington model 81 so far,among others.Its worth a try,and try again next week!

hal9000 · January 13, 2014, 10:33 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. You're right that I'm essentially starting with just a barrel/reciever/trigger group.

I did a little checking last night and savageparts/popperts/numrich have most of the small missing items for just a dollar or two each. I still have to put together a whole order, but I'm hoping to get out below that $300 estimate you tossed out. We'll see. Even at that I should still come out ok though.

Just out of curiousity, why do you think a polychoke would be an atrocity? I don't know much about them but thought it was a pretty fitting idea for a pack gun that I'm trying to get maximum functionality with minimum clutter and spare parts to carry....

HiBC, I've got a little horizontal mill and a 10" swing southbend, but no bridgebort. If the barrels are truly brazed into the barrel block (I've found no sign of silver solder or braze yet) then I may have to borrow a favor from our staff machinist at work.

That's a good idea on the choke tube. Thanks for not editing it out. I'll have to dig out my old aircraft spruce catalog and go shopping for tubing.

hal9000 · January 14, 2014, 10:56 AM

I haven't quite ordered everything I need yet, but it looks like all the parts are going to total up in the vicinity of $150 or a tad under once all is said and done

Now it's just a matter of planning for the machine work. The Barrels appear to be pressed/pinned into the barrel block so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to cut and crown them on my lathe without much trouble.

I did have a question about soldering on a choke adapter like HiBC suggested. I've soldered, brazed and welded a lot of different things in my life, and I used to be a professional jeweler (think torch welding/soldering on a nearly microscopic scale) but nothing on a firearm. Are there any tips you guys can give me to make sure I've got the process right? I'm assuming that I should draw the solder into the lap joint and not try to pre-tin the surfaces, but would sure love to hear from someone with first hand experience?

Also what about heat sources? 400 degrees isn't that hot and I could see using an oven or kiln to heat the whole piece more evenly and precisely than with an open flame... Not sure if there's a good reason to go to that length or not.

HiBC · January 15, 2014, 09:11 AM

I have not soldered one in place.We fine threaded the ID of the adapter sleeve and the OD of the bbl and screwed it on.If you are going to demount the bbls so you can put them in the lathe,I'd skip the solder and do that.You can Loctite it if you want.An old South Bend will cut threads..I'd go 19 in in case you have to start over so you don't go under 18 in.

If you solder:

You'll want a close slip fit for alignment,but not tight or the solder can't wick.

The Hi-force 44 flows good and the flux is good.

Heat needs to be soft and even.A 1000 deg heat gun might be worth a try.I have soldered copper pipe with one.

The challenge will be to not get solder where it is unwanted,like where the choke tube skirt goes,or into the threads.

Ask Brownell's tech,they may have a solder mask product to keep solder off where you do not want it.

Maybe try a practice piece first.

I've done a few liquid nitrogen shrink fits before,but that might be getting fancy.

However,I have used freeze spray to pull tubular dowels out of mold plates before.Shoot it in the ID and the dowel sleeve comes out of the plate.Might help you demount the bbl.

hal9000 · January 15, 2014, 10:30 AM

Thanks again for all the advice HiBC. I have to admit that I was a bit distracted when I responded last. I'd read your post once but when I went back and re-scanned it I got a little crossed up and associated the solder with the choke tube and not the sight (My bad). But for the sight, flowing the solder just to where it needs to be really won't be that much of a problem. Usually that's just a matter of controlling the quantity and location of flux and solder, or using heat to control where and how the solder flows (which admittedly is a bit more difficult without using a torch). Anyway, I've had lots of practice at doing that on a smaller scale.

I really like your idea of using freeze spray to remove the barrels. I did something similar (cooling the barrel and heating the reciever) to assemble an interference fit barrel in a 10/22 I built a few years back, but hadn't made the leap of imagination to using cooling spray for disassembly. That sounds like a better idea than borrowing my cousin's inductive bolt heater to heat the breech block....

hal9000 · January 29, 2014, 08:30 PM

Ebay was good to me this week.

No need to make my own now... coincidentally, this one is a solder-on model with a smooth bore. I think I'll live though

Dixie Gunsmithing · January 29, 2014, 09:12 PM

Actually, if you have the equipment, you can make a sweat-on choke for a 20 Ga.. One could make it out of a round of 4140, bore it, then use a Morris taper reamer for the choke, then hone, and sweat it on with silver solder. The Morris taper is the same choke taper used by the famous LC Smith, which I do own a lovely model of. I think that long taper is what helps with the great shot patterns in the Smiths.

hal9000 · January 30, 2014, 12:06 AM

For sure! I actually don't want a fixed choke and was planning to make my own threaded adapter like HiBC described when I stumbled across these. For the cost I couldn't turn it down and it will save me an afternoon or two of machine work (I'm still relatively new to lathe work and my fastest speed could be described as "glacial").

Thanks for the suggestion though. I hadn't thought about the possibility of making the choke itself... just the adapter.

January 12, 2014, 09:41 PM	#1
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Rescue Mission. Savage 24V needs lots of help Hi all, I got the itch to build an emergency/pack rifle the other night so I went on the hunt for a good starter and 24 hours later, Voila! I came across this shining (ahem) example. It's a Savage 24V series B, chambered in .222/20 ga; SN 12044. I did a little horse trading and got the gun for about as close to free as you can get without actually being there, so I can't complain about the missing parts too much I suppose. Anyway, this gun is less than complete, but the barrels look clean so I'm off to the races looking for parts and knowledge. I'll probably place an order in the next day or two, but if anybody has spares lying around that you want to get rid of, maybe we can work something out. Here's a list of what's missing. 1) .222 firing pin 2) Both firing pin springs 3) Firing pin retainer plate 4) Trigger guard and screws 5) Forend stock assembly 6) Extractor assembly and 1 extractor lever retaining screw 7) Barrel band/front sight 8) Buttplate/liner/screws Now the questions (and really the reason for this post): Once I get it together, I'll focus on making it nice. Since it needs to be refinished I'll probably hit it with some cerakote or something similar, and strip restain the stock. Since I want this to break down, I was considering trying to track down a camper model stock (at least at the fore end since that's missing) but I don't know if the C stock is compatible with the 24V. Has anybody done a conversion? I'm also planning to bob the barrels down to about 20" to match the buttstock length when broken down. The easiest way to do this would be to remove the barrels from the barrel block so I can cut/recrown in my lathe. Does anybody know the process for this gun? It looks like there was a cross pin (which has also been removed) to hold them in, but I'm not sure if the barrels just pull out of the block. The shotgun barrel appears/feels to be cylinder bore, though I havent but a gauge in it. I'd like to have the option of a choke and was considering a poly choke, but I've never used one and don't know about the OD. Does anybody know if there's a polychoke that would clear the upper barrel (there's only about 1mm clearance between the two)? Since I'm cutting it I suppose I could just cut the .222 barrel a tad shorter for clearance, but I'd prefer to keep them the same length if possible. Thanks everyone and sorry for the long post!

January 13, 2014, 01:33 AM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	First off, congratulations on your project gun. Unfortunately, you are missing most of the gun. Good thing there is Numrich Arms. By the time you get all the missing parts, you should be into the gun for about $300. As far as bobbing the barrels, consider this: * The barrels are brazed together, so no, you cannot just pull them out and chuck them up in your lathe. * The wall thickness on the shotgun will probably not be thick enough for choke tubes, and a PolyChoke would be an atrocity. Good luck on your project! Visit the gun shows and do some trading and you could have it all together for about $200-ish. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 13, 2014, 05:08 AM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything..you do it your way. If you have access to a Bridgeport type mill,I have squared and crowned a number of barrels by swinging the ram off to one side and hanging the barrel off the side of the table,verticle.I have a precision angle plate with a vee groove in it that makes this easy.A large ball mill spots a [pretty good recess crown. Brownells used to offer a solder on choke tube sleeve.It takes Tru-Choke,slips over the OD of a barrel.You may have to carefully bore the id of this choke sleeve to fit your barrel. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...-prod7754.aspx OOPS!It seems they offer 12 ga,and you have a 20. But,instead of editing this idea out,I'll leave it.If you are pretty good with that lathe...I'd look for a chunk of the right size seamless drawn chrome moly aircraft tube,bore and single point thread it to fit the choke tube of your choice.The idea is still good.If you buy 3 feet of tube,you can try several times!Aircraft Spruce or MSC might have some tube. Make up a split figure 8 barrels clamp to go just behind the soldered on sleeve,rather like the typical barrel/mag tube band on a lever action.and work an interal sling swivel QD mount in it.Maybe do not split the very bottom.Your clamp screw ,between the barrels,can engage a slight notch in the barrels.With a little Loc tite bearing mount,it will be stable. I think if you then mount a nice old ramp front sight base cut to match the length of the choke tube sleeve,the cosmetcs will come together. You may have to ball mill the underside radius to match sight base/barrel.I think the 400 ish deg f Brownell's Hi-force 44 solder will do,and a blind .093 dowel won't hurt. That how I put the ramp back on my 44 mag Super Blackhawk long ago when I cut the bbl.The same solder ought to be great for the choke sleeve. Even Numrich advertises on e-bay.I have found parts for a first series circa 1920 Winchester 52(barrel band and original ladder type sight,trigger and sear,pre speed lock),a Remington 513T,and a Remington model 81 so far,among others.Its worth a try,and try again next week! Last edited by HiBC; January 13, 2014 at 05:38 AM.

January 13, 2014, 10:33 AM	#4
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Thanks for the advice guys. You're right that I'm essentially starting with just a barrel/reciever/trigger group. I did a little checking last night and savageparts/popperts/numrich have most of the small missing items for just a dollar or two each. I still have to put together a whole order, but I'm hoping to get out below that $300 estimate you tossed out. We'll see. Even at that I should still come out ok though. Just out of curiousity, why do you think a polychoke would be an atrocity? I don't know much about them but thought it was a pretty fitting idea for a pack gun that I'm trying to get maximum functionality with minimum clutter and spare parts to carry.... HiBC, I've got a little horizontal mill and a 10" swing southbend, but no bridgebort. If the barrels are truly brazed into the barrel block (I've found no sign of silver solder or braze yet) then I may have to borrow a favor from our staff machinist at work. That's a good idea on the choke tube. Thanks for not editing it out. I'll have to dig out my old aircraft spruce catalog and go shopping for tubing. Last edited by hal9000; January 14, 2014 at 11:03 AM.

January 14, 2014, 10:56 AM	#5
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	I haven't quite ordered everything I need yet, but it looks like all the parts are going to total up in the vicinity of $150 or a tad under once all is said and done Now it's just a matter of planning for the machine work. The Barrels appear to be pressed/pinned into the barrel block so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to cut and crown them on my lathe without much trouble. I did have a question about soldering on a choke adapter like HiBC suggested. I've soldered, brazed and welded a lot of different things in my life, and I used to be a professional jeweler (think torch welding/soldering on a nearly microscopic scale) but nothing on a firearm. Are there any tips you guys can give me to make sure I've got the process right? I'm assuming that I should draw the solder into the lap joint and not try to pre-tin the surfaces, but would sure love to hear from someone with first hand experience? Also what about heat sources? 400 degrees isn't that hot and I could see using an oven or kiln to heat the whole piece more evenly and precisely than with an open flame... Not sure if there's a good reason to go to that length or not. Last edited by hal9000; January 14, 2014 at 11:04 AM.

January 15, 2014, 09:11 AM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I have not soldered one in place.We fine threaded the ID of the adapter sleeve and the OD of the bbl and screwed it on.If you are going to demount the bbls so you can put them in the lathe,I'd skip the solder and do that.You can Loctite it if you want.An old South Bend will cut threads..I'd go 19 in in case you have to start over so you don't go under 18 in. If you solder: You'll want a close slip fit for alignment,but not tight or the solder can't wick. The Hi-force 44 flows good and the flux is good. Heat needs to be soft and even.A 1000 deg heat gun might be worth a try.I have soldered copper pipe with one. The challenge will be to not get solder where it is unwanted,like where the choke tube skirt goes,or into the threads. Ask Brownell's tech,they may have a solder mask product to keep solder off where you do not want it. Maybe try a practice piece first. I've done a few liquid nitrogen shrink fits before,but that might be getting fancy. However,I have used freeze spray to pull tubular dowels out of mold plates before.Shoot it in the ID and the dowel sleeve comes out of the plate.Might help you demount the bbl. Last edited by HiBC; January 15, 2014 at 09:37 AM.

January 15, 2014, 10:30 AM	#7
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Thanks again for all the advice HiBC. I have to admit that I was a bit distracted when I responded last. I'd read your post once but when I went back and re-scanned it I got a little crossed up and associated the solder with the choke tube and not the sight (My bad). But for the sight, flowing the solder just to where it needs to be really won't be that much of a problem. Usually that's just a matter of controlling the quantity and location of flux and solder, or using heat to control where and how the solder flows (which admittedly is a bit more difficult without using a torch). Anyway, I've had lots of practice at doing that on a smaller scale. I really like your idea of using freeze spray to remove the barrels. I did something similar (cooling the barrel and heating the reciever) to assemble an interference fit barrel in a 10/22 I built a few years back, but hadn't made the leap of imagination to using cooling spray for disassembly. That sounds like a better idea than borrowing my cousin's inductive bolt heater to heat the breech block....

January 29, 2014, 08:30 PM	#8
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	Ebay was good to me this week. No need to make my own now... coincidentally, this one is a solder-on model with a smooth bore. I think I'll live though

January 29, 2014, 09:12 PM	#9
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Actually, if you have the equipment, you can make a sweat-on choke for a 20 Ga.. One could make it out of a round of 4140, bore it, then use a Morris taper reamer for the choke, then hone, and sweat it on with silver solder. The Morris taper is the same choke taper used by the famous LC Smith, which I do own a lovely model of. I think that long taper is what helps with the great shot patterns in the Smiths.

January 30, 2014, 12:06 AM	#10
hal9000 Member Join Date: October 15, 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 82	For sure! I actually don't want a fixed choke and was planning to make my own threaded adapter like HiBC described when I stumbled across these. For the cost I couldn't turn it down and it will save me an afternoon or two of machine work (I'm still relatively new to lathe work and my fastest speed could be described as "glacial"). Thanks for the suggestion though. I hadn't thought about the possibility of making the choke itself... just the adapter.