Ruger old army and legals

tomykay12 · June 30, 2011, 06:24 PM

Hi. Is it legal to buy a ruger old army, say online or private party, and ship directly to your door, or does it have to go thru a FFL? Even though it is BP, it is not a replica of a design made before 1899, and could thusly be subject to DROS here in california? Could someone clarify this for me? Local gunstore says DROS, but they may have ulterior motives. Thankyou all, best, tk

ClemBert · June 30, 2011, 06:32 PM

From the perspective of the Federal Guberment (aka BATF) a blackpowder revolver is not a "firearm". Thusly, the answer to your question, IN GENERAL, is yes you can ship directly. However, state and local laws vary. Since it would appear that you are in the Republik of Kalifornia your rules are different than my rules in Florida.

hongrn · June 30, 2011, 06:41 PM

Check out this warning on the Traditions web site:

WARNING: Black powder firearms cannot be shipped to New Jersey, New York City, Illinois, Michigan, or Canada. For all other states, please review your state and local laws before ordering.

tomykay12 · June 30, 2011, 06:59 PM

Both taylors and cabelas said they ship BP to california. Not an issue I think. My question is regarding the old army, as it is not a replica of an old design. I may have not been clear in the original post; I was referring to the Ruger old army specifically because it is a "new" design, not shipping BP revolvers in general. t

ClemBert · June 30, 2011, 07:09 PM

The ROA is treated the same way as the replica firearms you reference. No difference.

Pahoo · June 30, 2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

as it is not a replica of an old design.

That is correct but then most M/L's you see today are not. These are called Non-Replicates but still "In the Spirit" of the old ones. An example is the in-lines that are not in any spirits and yet, they can be shipped to most states without an FFL. I think that hongrn gave you a good reply. I think you are making this harder than it really is. ...

Now, if you are really concerned and for your protection, get it sent to your local FFL. I know mine won't or can't accept a transsaction like this. ....

Be Safe !!!

tomykay12 · June 30, 2011, 07:50 PM

Thankyou. Most definitely not trying to make it hard. Don't want the atf at my door. My gut feeling was that the gunstore was misinformed, or misleading. Appreciate the informed folks here, thankyou, tomas

pohill · June 30, 2011, 09:08 PM

It has more to do with the ammo than the gun. If you convert a cap and ball revolver to shoot cartridges, everything changes.

mykeal · June 30, 2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

WARNING: Black powder firearms cannot be shipped to New Jersey, New York City, Illinois, Michigan, or Canada.

A statement which is completely false and misleading.

orangello · July 1, 2011, 11:01 AM

Not a bad question, IMO. I've noticed some of the sellers on gunbroker state they won't ship the ROA's except to a FFL. I wondered what their logic was.

hongrn · July 1, 2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

A statement which is completely false and misleading.

So Michigan does not regulate BP guns? Wonder why Traditions posts such a statement. Quite a few sellers on GunBroker post the same thing, but when I contact them and inform them, they retract the restriction.

tomykay12 · July 1, 2011, 12:06 PM

There certainly seems to be alot left to interpretation in some of these laws. Gunbroker sellers sometimes are punitive in their restrictions, as there are some sellers in arizona that will not ship a peanut to california. I personally will not consider an ad such as that, as it may be an indication of someone hard to deal with. In shopping for a ROA, I contacted two sellers just yesterday, asking if they would ship directly to my home in ca; one said yes, no problem, and the other has not responded yet. Might try a WTB ad here and on other appropriate forums. Guess a BP gun in the spirit of a replica of a reproduction is ok by me, tk

Pahoo · July 1, 2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

I've noticed some of the sellers on gunbroker state they won't ship the ROA's except to a FFL. I wondered what their logic was.

I have seen these and I too have questioned the seller, on three different occasions. To date, all have responded that they would ship and some have even gone back and revised their listings. Most are large seller/shops that automatically list the FFL requirement. Then there are some that are not informed that M/L's are not as restrictive. .....

Be Safe !!!

robhof · July 1, 2011, 04:29 PM

I went back and forth with a seller on GB about their insistance of shipping their ROA to a FFL. The 3rd time it was listed they finally got to their reserve, but they had changed their FFL requirement to no. Their reply to me was that it was a modern firearm, I told them that so are inlines, they replied that it's a pistol and that's different. They are a dealer with a large selection of guns for sale!!!

Pahoo · July 1, 2011, 07:08 PM

Not so strange that GB is currently showing three ROA's and none require an FFL to ship to. .......

Be Safe !!!

Gunn Smithy · July 3, 2011, 10:01 AM

As a former California FFL Dealer (although too many years ago to make much a difference) I did end up with a "personal" stock of firearms that I had held for over a year so it was legal for me to sell personally after I had surrendered my license. Some of those items included Ruger Old Armies. I sold them out of state to private individuals, NO FFL and no legality issues at all. Later down the road, much to my dismay (Ruger had stopped making them). I decided that I needed a couple of Old Armies. Bought off the GunBroker, they were mailed to me with no FFL and no legal issues. I would assume that that is still the case. The last Old Army came to me less than one year ago if that helps you at all? Smithy.

orangello · July 4, 2011, 11:40 AM

These two simply state the seller's general policy of shipping to an FFL without indicating this is an exception. That seems to be the norm.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238499440
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238874321
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238707886

This one specifically states "This modern revolver requires an FFL even if this is a black powder gun. Store policy" Doesn't sound like a shop i want to deal with.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=239453616

June 30, 2011, 06:24 PM	#1
tomykay12 Junior Member Join Date: November 2, 2010 Posts: 12	Ruger old army and legals Hi. Is it legal to buy a ruger old army, say online or private party, and ship directly to your door, or does it have to go thru a FFL? Even though it is BP, it is not a replica of a design made before 1899, and could thusly be subject to DROS here in california? Could someone clarify this for me? Local gunstore says DROS, but they may have ulterior motives. Thankyou all, best, tk

June 30, 2011, 06:41 PM	#3
hongrn Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 91	Check out this warning on the Traditions web site: WARNING: Black powder firearms cannot be shipped to New Jersey, New York City, Illinois, Michigan, or Canada. For all other states, please review your state and local laws before ordering. __________________ I love the smell of soot in the morning...

July 1, 2011, 04:29 PM	#14
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof I went back and forth with a seller on GB about their insistance of shipping their ROA to a FFL. The 3rd time it was listed they finally got to their reserve, but they had changed their FFL requirement to no. Their reply to me was that it was a modern firearm, I told them that so are inlines, they replied that it's a pistol and that's different. They are a dealer with a large selection of guns for sale!!!

July 1, 2011, 07:08 PM	#15
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	No FFL requirement showing on GB's ROA's !!! Not so strange that GB is currently showing three ROA's and none require an FFL to ship to. ....... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

July 3, 2011, 10:01 AM	#16
Gunn Smithy Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2011 Location: CA's central valley Posts: 101	As a former California FFL Dealer (although too many years ago to make much a difference) I did end up with a "personal" stock of firearms that I had held for over a year so it was legal for me to sell personally after I had surrendered my license. Some of those items included Ruger Old Armies. I sold them out of state to private individuals, NO FFL and no legality issues at all. Later down the road, much to my dismay (Ruger had stopped making them). I decided that I needed a couple of Old Armies. Bought off the GunBroker, they were mailed to me with no FFL and no legal issues. I would assume that that is still the case. The last Old Army came to me less than one year ago if that helps you at all? Smithy. __________________ Salvation is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and in Him alone.

June 30, 2011, 06:32 PM	#2
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	From the perspective of the Federal Guberment (aka BATF) a blackpowder revolver is not a "firearm". Thusly, the answer to your question, IN GENERAL, is yes you can ship directly. However, state and local laws vary. Since it would appear that you are in the Republik of Kalifornia your rules are different than my rules in Florida.

June 30, 2011, 06:59 PM	#4
tomykay12 Junior Member Join Date: November 2, 2010 Posts: 12	Both taylors and cabelas said they ship BP to california. Not an issue I think. My question is regarding the old army, as it is not a replica of an old design. I may have not been clear in the original post; I was referring to the Ruger old army specifically because it is a "new" design, not shipping BP revolvers in general. t

June 30, 2011, 07:09 PM	#5
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	The ROA is treated the same way as the replica firearms you reference. No difference.

June 30, 2011, 07:50 PM	#7
tomykay12 Junior Member Join Date: November 2, 2010 Posts: 12	Thankyou. Most definitely not trying to make it hard. Don't want the atf at my door. My gut feeling was that the gunstore was misinformed, or misleading. Appreciate the informed folks here, thankyou, tomas

June 30, 2011, 09:08 PM	#8
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	It has more to do with the ammo than the gun. If you convert a cap and ball revolver to shoot cartridges, everything changes.

July 1, 2011, 11:01 AM	#10
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	Not a bad question, IMO. I've noticed some of the sellers on gunbroker state they won't ship the ROA's except to a FFL. I wondered what their logic was.

July 1, 2011, 12:06 PM	#12
tomykay12 Junior Member Join Date: November 2, 2010 Posts: 12	There certainly seems to be alot left to interpretation in some of these laws. Gunbroker sellers sometimes are punitive in their restrictions, as there are some sellers in arizona that will not ship a peanut to california. I personally will not consider an ad such as that, as it may be an indication of someone hard to deal with. In shopping for a ROA, I contacted two sellers just yesterday, asking if they would ship directly to my home in ca; one said yes, no problem, and the other has not responded yet. Might try a WTB ad here and on other appropriate forums. Guess a BP gun in the spirit of a replica of a reproduction is ok by me, tk

July 4, 2011, 11:40 AM	#17
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	These two simply state the seller's general policy of shipping to an FFL without indicating this is an exception. That seems to be the norm. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238499440 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238874321 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=238707886 This one specifically states "This modern revolver requires an FFL even if this is a black powder gun. Store policy" Doesn't sound like a shop i want to deal with. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=239453616