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Old June 3, 2021, 06:44 PM   #1
ATN082268
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Smith and Wesson revolver without lock

Hello. Currently, I do not have a Smith and Wesson revolver in my collection and would like to add one. I am looking for recommendations. Two caveats. First, it must not have a internal lock. Second, it must be currently produced or reasonably easy to obtain and not at a astronomical price. Thank you.
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Old June 3, 2021, 07:18 PM   #2
Nick_C_S
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So lets see:

No internal lock.

Currently in production.

And reasonably priced.

Not sure those characteristics have an overlapping subset.
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Old June 3, 2021, 07:21 PM   #3
44caliberkid
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Originally Posted by Nick_C_S View Post
So lets see:

No internal lock.

Currently in production.

And reasonably priced.

Not sure those characteristics have an overlapping subset.
Yep, you've disqualified yourself already.
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Old June 3, 2021, 09:34 PM   #4
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Well technically the model 10 is still in production(with lock), but there are plenty older models on the market without the lock.
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Old June 3, 2021, 10:03 PM   #5
reddog81
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What caliber?
What price range?
What do you consider easy to obtain? You can go on gunbroker.com and obtain a Registered Magnum just as easy as buying any brand new gun.
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Old June 3, 2021, 11:46 PM   #6
ATN082268
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Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
What caliber?
What price range?
What do you consider easy to obtain? You can go on gunbroker.com and obtain a Registered Magnum just as easy as buying any brand new gun.
I'm not too hung up on caliber and the upper limit is probably around 1200 dollars. Easy to obtain would be still in production or generally available GunBroker.
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Old June 4, 2021, 06:19 AM   #7
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I’d recommend a nice 586/686 with a 4”-5” barrel, either 6 or 7 round cylinder is fine. I wouldn’t hesitate to get one with the lock, if it bothers that much they make easily installed kits to replace the lock. But, my person favorites are N-frames in .357, in other words a model 27/28 or more modern 627’s. These are most likely over that budget though, but they are hands down IMO the most beautiful handgun ever made.
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Old June 4, 2021, 08:27 AM   #8
105kw
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At your limit of $1200, you can get a good .38 Special. Model 10, 15, or 14.
.357 mag your best bet would be a k frame M19, or 13. Same guns in stainless are M66, or 65
N frames are getting pricey, look for a M28 Highway Patrolman, M27s are going way high now.
586/686 L frames can be found priced decently, just look for a deal.
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Old June 4, 2021, 08:30 AM   #9
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Right now I have several S&W .357s. I have 3 m28s, one 586 and a 27. All prelocks and all P&Rs except the 586 which is the 83/8” target model with adjustable front as well as rear sight. One 28-2 is NIB. The only one I wouldn’t sell for $1200 is the 27 and all are near mint.
I’ve a bunch of N frames either hi condition or NIB and wouldn’t sell any at $1200.
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Old June 4, 2021, 09:52 AM   #10
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If I could have only one revolver, it would be a 4" .357 Magnum K frame size,
with adjustable sights. Model 19 P&R's are a personal favorite.

2 revolvers? Second would be a K-22 Combat Masterpiece (model 18). Hard to
find at a decent price. Currently have a 1948 K-22 Masterpiece (model 17).
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Old June 4, 2021, 10:48 AM   #11
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S&W has a "Classic" line that is current production without a lock; reasonably priced? That depends on what you consider reasonable.

Personally, NONE of my revolvers from S&W have a lock 19, 66, 586, 642, I frame 32SWL M&P, 2 K-22s. The 642 is the youngest and was available with and without a lock when I bought mine.
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Old June 4, 2021, 11:19 AM   #12
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Why no lock?

Is just a visual thing?

There a few older Smiths (pinned, recessed, no locks) in the family, and they are great revolvers, but I’ve had zero issues with the Smiths I’ve got that have the locks, they are about 15 and 10 years old.

I think the no lock versions look a little more pleasing to the eye, but would have no trouble owning either version.

Not trying to start a war, and your choice is your choice , but it would open up a lot more options if you would consider a “lock” version.
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Old June 4, 2021, 03:30 PM   #13
wild cat mccane
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FYI, the lock is 30 years old.
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Old June 4, 2021, 03:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankylove View Post
Why no lock?

Is just a visual thing?

There a few older Smiths (pinned, recessed, no locks) in the family, and they are great revolvers, but I’ve had zero issues with the Smiths I’ve got that have the locks, they are about 15 and 10 years old.

I think the no lock versions look a little more pleasing to the eye, but would have no trouble owning either version.

Not trying to start a war, and your choice is your choice , but it would open up a lot more options if you would consider a “lock” version.
I really don't like the lock. Mainly because it doesn't look good and, more importantly, just useless junk which can break and cause a malfunction. If Smith and Wesson thinks more people want the lock than not, more power to them
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Old June 4, 2021, 04:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankylove View Post
Why no lock?

Is just a visual thing?

There a few older Smiths (pinned, recessed, no locks) in the family, and they are great revolvers, but I’ve had zero issues with the Smiths I’ve got that have the locks, they are about 15 and 10 years old.

I think the no lock versions look a little more pleasing to the eye, but would have no trouble owning either version.

Not trying to start a war, and your choice is your choice , but it would open up a lot more options if you would consider a “lock” version.
I wont buy one with a lock. The lock is an eyesore. My wife has one but that's her, not me.
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Old June 4, 2021, 04:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
I'm not too hung up on caliber...
Kind of hard to help you, when things like caliber, barrel length, sights, etc. are usually the starting point.

Don
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Old June 4, 2021, 05:36 PM   #17
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S&W has a few J-frames in its Centennial configurations which are still current.
Models:
-640 Pro
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-640-0

-642-1
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...642?sku=103810
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...2-0?sku=178042

-442-1
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...2-0?sku=178041
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...442?sku=150544

-M&P 340
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...-internal-lock


and there may be one or two more.
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Old June 4, 2021, 05:37 PM   #18
ATN082268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR View Post
Kind of hard to help you, when things like caliber, barrel length, sights, etc. are usually the starting point.

Don
Ok. I'll say .22, .38, 357, 9mm for caliber.
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Old June 4, 2021, 05:51 PM   #19
Crankylove
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Quote:
I really don't like the lock. Mainly because it doesn't look good and, more importantly, just useless junk which can break and cause a malfunction. If Smith and Wesson thinks more people want the lock than not, more power to them
Fair enough.

I’ve never used the lock on mine (that’s what the safe is for) don’t even know where the keys are.

Hope your search is successful.
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Old June 5, 2021, 01:34 AM   #20
wild cat mccane
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Not really fair comment. 30 years old. How many breaks have there been online? like 4?

I'm glad it exists though. Revolver folk would have nothing to yawn on about without the boogyman S&W lock...that is again, 30 years old.
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Old June 5, 2021, 07:00 AM   #21
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Quote:

No internal lock.

Currently in production.

And reasonably priced.
Yea. It's called a Colt Python. And that's from a lifetime Smith & Wesson guy.



At MSRP of 1500.00 it's a little higher priced than your stated preferred high price but it fits everything else. I actually paid $1700.00 for the last one I bought, but I think they're the best D/A revolver I've ever owned, and I don't even know how many I have owned over the years. I'm up to over 1,000 rounds with no problems that couldn't be taken care of with a few seconds work with a screwdriver, and that was only on one of the three I've got.

The trigger, out of the box is without a doubt the best I've handled. It just begs to be fired in double action. Normally I do most of my revolver shooting in single action but I don't think I've fired a single shot in single action from any of the three.

Like I said, I've always been a S&W guy, and I'm somewhat surprised to say it but Colt has them beat right now.
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Old June 5, 2021, 07:22 AM   #22
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The lock hasn't been a problem on any of my newer S&Ws but there are alot of other defects and S&W doesn't exactly bend over backwards to repair them. I would suggest you find an older S&W pre-lock. There are a lot of them out there that are in very good condition. I did buy a new 642 w/o the lock a few years ago, only thing wrong with it is that it had a super-extra-hellaciously heavy main spring in it. i installed a new standard spring in it and it's good to go. The other 5 or 6 new S&W guns all have defects. The ones I've straightened out shoot well tho. I probably won't buy any more new S&W guns.
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Old June 5, 2021, 07:49 AM   #23
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It is not only the lock, all the other subtle changes that S&W have made over the yaers.
All in the name of cost savings. But the cost of their revolvers has not gone down!

It seems that S&W is spending all the R&D on autoloaders that are selling like
hotcakes!
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Old June 5, 2021, 08:59 AM   #24
wild cat mccane
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Don't let "days of old quality" warp reality.

The trigger and hammer are no less functional because of their metal change. Number of triggers or hammers breaking? none. So that they changed them? So what really.

If the hammer and trigger change of the S&W revolvers are an issue, the GP100 is by that definition is functionally junk being as it's cast metal all but the cylinder and barrel.

"Hand fitting" of any older revolver is the reality that parts weren't made to today's tighter tolerances. So if the metal isn't breaking in today's parts, the revolvers of today are technically created more in spec than a revolver that had to be hand fit of later years.

Also, "hand fitting" gets a mystic instead of just calling it adjusting.

The Hole is tiny. I don't know why anyone would say it's unattractive. My young eyes don't even notice it. How people who talk about their eyesight being less than my young eyes see it? okay....

What makes the revolver function without end shake and lock up has not changed.

But, the revolvers of earlier years were just SOOO much better

Get what you want. Just if you are reading into things you've read about the changes, most is just nonsense. A 686 of today is just as great as a 686 of yester years.
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Old June 5, 2021, 12:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
FYI, the lock is 30 years old.
So?? a 30 year old insult is no less offensive because it is still being used 30 years later.

Quote:
The Hole is tiny. I don't know why anyone would say it's unattractive.
If you honestly don't know why, you need to do some research...

Quote:
I really don't like the lock. Mainly because it doesn't look good and, more importantly, just useless junk which can break and cause a malfunction.
Quote:
30 years old. How many breaks have there been online? like 4?
During the first few years after the lock was put in, people watched pretty closely, and there were a handful of verified instances of the lock "self activating". About 5, nation wide. Since then, nothing reported that I know of. Mechanically, the S&W lock has not proven to be a concern.

Lets be clear about this, for me (and a lot of other people) its not about the lock as an idea (one I happen to disagree with), nor is it about the idea that a lock could malfunction (which has proven to be a non-issue), its about GUN CONTROL, and the S&W lock being a constant "in your face" reminder.

The Clinton administration came up with a gun control package that included the lock, and a LOT of other things as well, including severe restrictions on sales outlets and practices. Also at this time there was a lot of noise from the Mayors of major US cities, about how they were going to sue gunmakers for the "cost of gun violence" in their cities.

The Clintons offered gunmakers a deal. They told gunmakers that if they would accept the administration's package, they would be exempted from being sued. This was a LIE, it was not something within the legal authority of the Clinton's to promise. Most Americans recognized this....

Out of all the people making guns in the US, the only one to accept the Clinton deal was S&W. And, to be fair, it wasn't exactly S&W, it was the people who owned S&W that accepted the deal, a British holding company Thompkins LTD.

The location of the lock, the change done to the look of the gun (particularly the change to the cylinder latch) was seen as a slap in the face to a significant segment of S&Ws customer base. Forget all the red herring arguments about safety, they're BS. The lock got put in to appease gun control advocates, in the belief that would CYA S&W.

NO other company did that. Or, more precisely, did it the way S&W did. Ruger put a lock in some of their models, on their own, without accepting the Clinton "deal" and all the BS that went with that. Ruger put their lock in an unobtrusive location. Somewhere it was out of sight and out of mind, if that's what the owner desired. (and, we did desire that) Another company (Taurus?) also put in a lock, and also in a not so obvious spot, again, without signing on to the Clinton "deal"

But S&W put it "right in your face" and by doing that, S&W was seen as "selling out to the Clintons" (and gun control in general).

There was a boycott. Lots of people stopped buying S&Ws, and even more refused (and to this day still do refuse) to buy one of the S&Ws with that lock in it.

S&W lost sales. Their stock "tanked". They lost MONEY, and they knew why.
The British owners sold S&W for a multimillion dollar LOSS.

The irony of the situation was that the group that came up with the money to buy S&W included the people who invented the S&W lock to begin with, and since they thought it a swell idea, they kept it, and (some) S&Ws still have it today. ALL they kept from the Clinton deal was the lock, none of the other parts of the deal were kept, and that "deal", never being law of any kind, disappeared with the end of the Clinton administration.

And the "big stick" the Clintons tried to use, the threat of endless lawsuits from the nations mayors? Never happened, either.

IIRC, Congress passed a law preventing that. Something about "Lawful commerce in firearms"....

So, for those of us who lived through those time, its not just a hole in a S&W its a reminder of govt overreach, gun control, shady deals, and one you cannot help but see every time you see the left side of the gun.

30+ years down the road doesn't change history one bit. It just means there's another generation of buyers who don't know WHY it's an insult. TO them, its "always been there" so its normal, right, and proper.

but, really, it isn't any of those....and some of us remember...
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