CED M2 Chronograph - Page 2

RWBlue01 · September 22, 2010, 11:33 AM

I have an older CED chronograph. When I bought mine they had serial connections. I love it for what it does. I just wish it was setup with a memory card of a USB connection. I have never had a need to calibrate it. I tested it with factory ammo and a factory gun. I also tested it with subsonics and a suppressor. If it is off by 50fps, I would be surprised.

As far as use:
I think the #1 use is for competitors trying to have the least powerful load and still be legal for that level of competition.

For me it is more the scientific study of ballistics and reloading. There are so many different variables. One day the target shows, I am shooting great and the next day things are off. Was it me, or did I do something to my loads?

When I was trying to develop a subsonic suppressed 308 round. The first round warms the barrel and screws up the rest of the test, UNLESS I know what the first round should chrono in a warm barrel in which case I can guess at what might be working and what is going to be way too fast or slow. Then I can come back and do cold barrel testing. (This really means I need two loads. One for first round and one for everything after the first round.)

When I was developing 45Super loads, some of the time things looked good on paper, but the load didn’t perform well (not up to speed). I don’t know why, but that is what happened.

When looking at Black powder theory, I hope to re-adjust my load (back them down) to a load that has the most accuracy with the most velocity. Or maybe I will be going for the load with the most velocity and acceptable accuracy. It really depends on some other tests on terminal theory. (BTW, I am accurate for me, with irons at 100 yards, but I know I am past max load for my gun. This is a compound screw up, that would need 500 words to describe.)

Then there are the tests on terminal theory. I have gel. Where I could shoot gel, was a limited distance range. If I am going to test 9mm or 45ACP hits at 100+ yards, I will need to run the ballistic calculator for velocity numbers and then develop a load that simulates what a 9mm or 45ACP should be doing at 100+ yards.

Doc Hoy · September 22, 2010, 01:56 PM

Just a curiosity....Do you cast your own bullets?

bedbugbilly · September 22, 2010, 02:42 PM

Man! Never did I expect that asking a few questions would produce such a flurry of information!

First things first . . . . NWPilgrim and others who may have misinterpreted (or not) my original questions . . . . . I am not nor ever will make fun of or "knock" anyone who uses a chronograph nor for anything else . . . I'm not cut from that cloth . . . . . my questions, however poorly worded they might have been or possibly misunderstood were not meant to upset anyone. I have never had any experience with a chronograph nor even seen one used other than in pictures. To clarify my comments about not being "scientific" . . . I'm not! I'm a "right brained" fella who always had problems with chemistry and the other sciences such as physics - just not my "bag" and thank goodness I didn't need a lot of science for my degrees as I would have been in trouble.

I was always under the misguided idea that what they tested were the fps. After reading the many posts, I see how wrong I was in their application and the various things that those that use them are concerned with and the data they can produce.

My questions were basically aimed at "Doc" as he and I have often gone back and forth on posts in regards to a number of topics and I know he is a person who likes to "explore" the why and how of things - whether it be rebuilding a pistol or designing a new range box. I personally learn a lot from the others that post on this site and their experiences. It's evident that each of you use a chronograph in your own way to collect data and try to make improvements in what you are doing - whether it be in regards to C&B shooting, cartridge shooting, powder loads, primer ignition or slugs, etc. with different variables. I honestly think it's great! Basically, I was trying to find out "why" a person uses one and what they can tell you. I was not doing this in a accusatory tone at all - I was curious and had questions. I probably will never own a chronograph as for the type of shooting I do - plinking, cans, targets - none of it in competition, I'm sure doesn't warrant the expense. I do "experiment" though with various powder loads, patching material, lubes, etc. as I like to see the different results and which one works best. Those of you that have a scientific tendency just take it a step further and use the technology available to answer the questions you have. I appreciate that as your findings help those of us who don't have the knowledge or equipment to learn more and perhaps change some of the things we are doing to get better results.

I enjoy this board because of the fact that others are willing to share their knowledge with each other. There is a great group of fellas here and I have learned a lot that I didn't know, even after having shot BP for 45+ years. The one disappointing thing though, is when someone takes great offense at someone else's thoughts or opinions and jumps on them with both boots and spurs. We all can learn from each other in a respectful way.

Once again, I apologize to anyone that my questions may have stirred up as anything I said was not intended to ruffle any feathers or criticize anyone who uses a chronograph and the information they can provide. I thank all of you who shared your comments as I now have a better understanding of what they are used for and why they are used. Many thanks! Sincerely, BB

Doc Hoy · September 22, 2010, 02:58 PM

I agree about 300 percent with everything you said...You are absolutely correct, especially all the nice things you said about me....

RWBlue01 · September 22, 2010, 03:46 PM

Doc, I have not cast my own bullets. It is something I have wanted to do, but I just have not had the time, location and money to do it. I did have someone do some custom casting for me a few years ago. That allowed for a different experiment.

bedbugbilly, don’t apologize. I didn’t get the hole chronograph thing for years. Then I got one and started munging the data. The more I played with the data the more I “think” I see patterns. If I can just get a little more data, I might have a useful theory to two to put my name on.

NWPilgrim · September 22, 2010, 08:46 PM

Sorry for the confusion Bedbug. My earlier post should have been addressed to Mykeal and not you. Mykeal pointed this out and I apologize to you for posting to the wrong person.

I agree this has been very informative thread and appreciate Doc's experience and posts, too. Keep asking those questions because that is how we all learn!

September 22, 2010, 01:56 PM	#27
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	RW Just a curiosity....Do you cast your own bullets? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

September 22, 2010, 02:42 PM	#28
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Man! Never did I expect that asking a few questions would produce such a flurry of information! First things first . . . . NWPilgrim and others who may have misinterpreted (or not) my original questions . . . . . I am not nor ever will make fun of or "knock" anyone who uses a chronograph nor for anything else . . . I'm not cut from that cloth . . . . . my questions, however poorly worded they might have been or possibly misunderstood were not meant to upset anyone. I have never had any experience with a chronograph nor even seen one used other than in pictures. To clarify my comments about not being "scientific" . . . I'm not! I'm a "right brained" fella who always had problems with chemistry and the other sciences such as physics - just not my "bag" and thank goodness I didn't need a lot of science for my degrees as I would have been in trouble. I was always under the misguided idea that what they tested were the fps. After reading the many posts, I see how wrong I was in their application and the various things that those that use them are concerned with and the data they can produce. My questions were basically aimed at "Doc" as he and I have often gone back and forth on posts in regards to a number of topics and I know he is a person who likes to "explore" the why and how of things - whether it be rebuilding a pistol or designing a new range box. I personally learn a lot from the others that post on this site and their experiences. It's evident that each of you use a chronograph in your own way to collect data and try to make improvements in what you are doing - whether it be in regards to C&B shooting, cartridge shooting, powder loads, primer ignition or slugs, etc. with different variables. I honestly think it's great! Basically, I was trying to find out "why" a person uses one and what they can tell you. I was not doing this in a accusatory tone at all - I was curious and had questions. I probably will never own a chronograph as for the type of shooting I do - plinking, cans, targets - none of it in competition, I'm sure doesn't warrant the expense. I do "experiment" though with various powder loads, patching material, lubes, etc. as I like to see the different results and which one works best. Those of you that have a scientific tendency just take it a step further and use the technology available to answer the questions you have. I appreciate that as your findings help those of us who don't have the knowledge or equipment to learn more and perhaps change some of the things we are doing to get better results. I enjoy this board because of the fact that others are willing to share their knowledge with each other. There is a great group of fellas here and I have learned a lot that I didn't know, even after having shot BP for 45+ years. The one disappointing thing though, is when someone takes great offense at someone else's thoughts or opinions and jumps on them with both boots and spurs. We all can learn from each other in a respectful way. Once again, I apologize to anyone that my questions may have stirred up as anything I said was not intended to ruffle any feathers or criticize anyone who uses a chronograph and the information they can provide. I thank all of you who shared your comments as I now have a better understanding of what they are used for and why they are used. Many thanks! Sincerely, BB __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 22, 2010, 02:58 PM	#29
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	BBB I agree about 300 percent with everything you said...You are absolutely correct, especially all the nice things you said about me.... __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

September 22, 2010, 08:46 PM	#31
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Sorry for the confusion Bedbug. My earlier post should have been addressed to Mykeal and not you. Mykeal pointed this out and I apologize to you for posting to the wrong person. I agree this has been very informative thread and appreciate Doc's experience and posts, too. Keep asking those questions because that is how we all learn! __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 22, 2010, 11:33 AM	#26
RWBlue01 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 178	I have an older CED chronograph. When I bought mine they had serial connections. I love it for what it does. I just wish it was setup with a memory card of a USB connection. I have never had a need to calibrate it. I tested it with factory ammo and a factory gun. I also tested it with subsonics and a suppressor. If it is off by 50fps, I would be surprised. As far as use: I think the #1 use is for competitors trying to have the least powerful load and still be legal for that level of competition. For me it is more the scientific study of ballistics and reloading. There are so many different variables. One day the target shows, I am shooting great and the next day things are off. Was it me, or did I do something to my loads? When I was trying to develop a subsonic suppressed 308 round. The first round warms the barrel and screws up the rest of the test, UNLESS I know what the first round should chrono in a warm barrel in which case I can guess at what might be working and what is going to be way too fast or slow. Then I can come back and do cold barrel testing. (This really means I need two loads. One for first round and one for everything after the first round.) When I was developing 45Super loads, some of the time things looked good on paper, but the load didn’t perform well (not up to speed). I don’t know why, but that is what happened. When looking at Black powder theory, I hope to re-adjust my load (back them down) to a load that has the most accuracy with the most velocity. Or maybe I will be going for the load with the most velocity and acceptable accuracy. It really depends on some other tests on terminal theory. (BTW, I am accurate for me, with irons at 100 yards, but I know I am past max load for my gun. This is a compound screw up, that would need 500 words to describe.) Then there are the tests on terminal theory. I have gel. Where I could shoot gel, was a limited distance range. If I am going to test 9mm or 45ACP hits at 100+ yards, I will need to run the ballistic calculator for velocity numbers and then develop a load that simulates what a 9mm or 45ACP should be doing at 100+ yards.

September 22, 2010, 03:46 PM	#30
RWBlue01 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 178	Doc, I have not cast my own bullets. It is something I have wanted to do, but I just have not had the time, location and money to do it. I did have someone do some custom casting for me a few years ago. That allowed for a different experiment. bedbugbilly, don’t apologize. I didn’t get the hole chronograph thing for years. Then I got one and started munging the data. The more I played with the data the more I “think” I see patterns. If I can just get a little more data, I might have a useful theory to two to put my name on.