What's the difference-.38 vs .38 special?

gwsaunders · October 31, 2006, 09:28 PM

Hello all,

I'm new to handguns and need some help.

I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson .38 S&W SPL. + P.

I went to but some ammo so I can learn how to shoot and the guy told me if I had a .38 , that I couldn't use .38 special ammo. He said the case is longer in the special and I could injure myself by using the wrong ammo. Is this correct? I didn't really find any ammo that just said .38, it was all .38 special.

I'm guessing my gun is indeed .38 Special ( since it has the SPL) but I just want to make sure before I go to the range so I don't lose a few fingers by using the wrong ammo.

Thanks,

Greg

skeeter1 · October 31, 2006, 09:46 PM

Greg--

No need to worry. If it's a Smith marked .38Spl, it'll handle +Ps just fine. I'd suggest starting with 148gr. semi-wadcutters for target practice. Then get yourself a box of 125gr +Ps and have some real fun!

Rimrod · October 31, 2006, 09:52 PM

Hi Greg and welcome to TFL.

You are right that the SPL on the side of your barrel is for 'special'. You will never see a box that just says ".38" because there are several different types of ammunition in that caliber. (ie, .38 short colt, .38 long colt, .38 S&W, .38 WCF and etc.)

Also if your gun is marked with the +P on the barrel it will fire .38 spl +P ammo as well, which is loaded a little more powerful than the standard .38 spl. Many guns that aren't marked +P will fire them also, although some shouldn't be used with them. Just in case that question ever comes up.
Rod

FRANK1669 · October 31, 2006, 09:56 PM

the 38 Smith and wesson is a very old cartridge that was originaly desined for black powder the rim thickness is a little less than the 38 special and the case overall length is much less. The 38 special I believe was next step in this cartridge, then they bumbed it up again to the 357 mag. If your barrel is marked 38 spl just stick with that. Better yet Does thre range you shot at sell ammo if so take it with you and get the ammo there the first time. Or if possible take it to the shop were you plan to get the ammo. One Last thought if you are new to shooting Welome to a great Hobby. It is fun but can be dangerous so look into some training before going off on your own. Good luck and enjoy

ISP2605 · October 31, 2006, 10:49 PM

The rd on the left is a .38 S&W SPL +P.
The rd on the right is a .38 S&W.
Yours is the one left. Some .38 SPL guns will chamber a .38 S&W rd but the rds are different and have different dimensions. Don't interchange them.
You do not have to shoot +P rds in it but you need to get ammo that is labled either .38 S&W SPL or .38 SPL. Same rd, just labeled differently, depends who makes it. +P rd will be a hotter loaded rd. As long as you are just shooting at paper and unless you are loading for defense then there's no need to spend the extra money for +P and beat your gun with the hotter rd.
I can't think of any company who is making .38 S&W guns right now. Lots of older guns chambered for that rd. Hasn't been much modern development of that rd and the companies that load that rd tend to keep them pretty mild due to all the old, and often cheap, guns chambered for it.

joab · October 31, 2006, 10:58 PM

Just about any round that could be referred to as .38 is obsolete except the .38 special.

Your dealer should have been able to ascertain what round you needed by simply asking you what gun you were buying for

matthew temkin · October 31, 2006, 11:27 PM

The .38 S&W was a popular cartridge early in the 20th century and was chambered in some very compact revolvers.
The .38 special came out in 1902 to give a boost to the .38 Long Colt, which proved to be a dismal stopper during the Phillipine war waged at the turn of the century.
When S&W chamberd the .38 SPL in J frame revolvers (1950) it spelled the demise of other, less potent .38 & .32 compact revolvers.
Your revolver is indeed a .38 Spl, and can handle any type of .38 loading.

The Real Wyatt · November 1, 2006, 01:30 AM

Just go to Walmart and ask for some 38's. Whatever they give you will be fine to shoot in your pistol. There ain't that much variation in the .38 cartridge today. Quit worrying about it.

gwsaunders · November 1, 2006, 03:36 PM

Awesome info!

Thanks everyone.

The fella at Bass Pro made it sound like I was going to blow my hand off if I shot ammo with the longer casing.

Greg

Gonzo_308 · November 1, 2006, 04:03 PM

Did he tell you about the time he destroyed an Iraqi tank with his Desert Eagle Sidearm?

clayshooter2u · November 3, 2006, 04:56 PM

I am shooting with a friend this weekend, and it took him forever to save the money to but this gun. He said it is a 38, I asked does it say 38 SPL on the side " NO " was the answer.I want to surprise him with some extra rounds while at the range. Are 38 Special 's OK ? As you can see by my user-name I'm NOT a pistol shooter.

Gonzo_308 · November 3, 2006, 06:06 PM

Clay, we need to know what make/model gun it is.

THere's a great liklihood he's fine and it's a 38 Spl but we can't say for certain without more info.

clayshooter2u · November 3, 2006, 07:44 PM

Gonz,
Thanks for not beating me up on this, I will call and find out , thank you for your understanding. If you ever have a Sporting Clay or Shotgun O/U Question feel free to ask. Again Thanks

walter in florida · November 4, 2006, 11:23 AM

I bought a S&W model 33-1 for 70 dollars and the pawn shop at that time thought he was pulling one over on me. He only put 38 revolver on the back gound check He did not tell me it was a 38S&W and I did not ask. I supect this happens a lot.

**Mike Irwin** · November 4, 2006, 12:20 PM

"The 38 special I believe was next step in this cartridge (.38 S&W)..."

Nope, it wasn't.

The .38 S&W was an evolutionary dead end.

When the US Military began having problems with the .38 Long Colt revolvers it was using the Philippines, Smith & Wesson started designing a more powerful cartridge that they hoped they could sell to the military.

They took the .38 Long Colt, lengthened the case so that it would hold 21.5 grains of black powder, and increased the lead round nose bullet weight to 158-grains. Velocity was around 800 fps.

That load became THE .38 Spl. load, and for years was the standard police load in this country. It's still loaded today.

skiwesser · October 5, 2011, 02:07 AM

Hi guys,
I'm new to shooting so I'll probably have a ton a stupid questions!

first what all cartridges can I use in my S&W airweight 38 SPL. CTG. ?

You guys said SPL is special right, that's what I figured, what does the CTG> mean?

Also what do you guys think of this particular handgun?

I like it, it's light. trigger doesn't require much pull, scared me first time. hair trigger

I guess.

Thanks in advance
Wes

natman · October 5, 2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

You guys said SPL is special right, that's what I figured, what does the CTG> mean?

Cartridge.

Crazy88Fingers · October 5, 2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

The fella at Bass Pro. . .

That might be your problem right there. Some of the guys at Bass Pro actually know what they're talking about. But a lot of them are just working a part-time minimum wage job, and they got stuck in the ammo aisle. Find a good local gun shop, and give them your money.

Any .38 revolver made in the last 100 years is most likely a .38 Special. You'd have to go a bit out of your way to find one that isn't.

GM2 · October 5, 2011, 05:09 AM

Quote:

That might be your problem right there. Some of the guys at Bass Pro actually know what they're talking about. But a lot of them are just working a part-time minimum wage job, and they got stuck in the ammo aisle. Find a good local gun shop, and give them your money.

Any .38 revolver made in the last 100 years is most likely a .38 Special. You'd have to go a bit out of your way to find one that isn't.

Exactly. good advise

ScotchMan · October 5, 2011, 07:52 AM

I have seen .38 Super ammo locally; that is the only thing you could confuse with .38 spl that is available where I am. But it wouldn't load in a revolver (I think) because it doesn't have a rim.

**Mike Irwin** · October 5, 2011, 07:55 AM

.38 Super has a very tiny rim.

In fact, it's possible to fire the .38 Super in a .357 Mag. revolver. There's just enough rim.

Daryl · October 5, 2011, 08:35 AM

".38" is a caliber.

".38 special" is a cartridge.

That's the difference.

Daryl

Jim Watson · October 5, 2011, 08:48 AM

I was going to say something about reading the instructions but then I went to the S&W site and looked at the Owner's Manual. It is generic for all models and calibers of recent production revolvers and the material in it about standard and +P ammunition is confusing to ME and I have been doing this stuff for 50+ years.

At one time you would have gotten a leaflet that listed suitable ammunition for that model. It would have said something like ".38 S&W Special also accepting .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 Special Midrange, .38 Special, and .38-44 High Velocity*"

*.38-44 High Velocity was the equivalent of +P+ and would have been recommended only for the big N frame .38s and .357 Magnums.

SPL is the abbreviation for Special. CTG is the abbreviation for Cartridge.
The all caps marking seems to confuse the novice gunowner, but that is all it is, no secret code; although I have been tempted to make something up.
(If you see an older gun marked, say, .32 S&W CTGE, it is not a Smith and Wesson, it is a minor make like Harrington and Richardson or Iver Johnson in the .32 S&W CALIBER. Smith and Wesson do not, did not use CTGE as an abbreviation for Cartridge.)

carguychris · October 5, 2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

first what all cartridges can I use in my S&W airweight 38 SPL. CTG. ?

If it is not marked "+P" on the barrel, you should use ammo marked "+P" very sparingly, or avoid it altogether. The aluminum alloy frames on pre-1996 Airweights aren't very strong and are known to stretch or crack with frequent use of +P.

The K frame (full-size 6-shot) Airweight models are stronger than the J frame (compact 5-shot) models and are better suited to occasional +P use.

Some very early Airweights were made with non-magnetic alloy cylinders. These guns are quite rare and it's very unlikely that you have one, but if you do, DO NOT FIRE IT. The alloy cylinder is too weak to withstand anything but light target loads, which is why S&W stopped using them after only a couple of years. FWIW these guns are valuable collector's items. If you somehow stumbled across one, you should be able to sell it and buy several other guns, or maybe a gun and a nice vacation.

Quote:

Also what do you guys think of this particular handgun?

S&W has made a variety of Airweight models. The easiest way to identify a recent one is to look inside the yoke cut for an "M" with a number after it- e.g. "M37-1", which would be a Model 37, engineering revision (dash) 1.

Webleymkv · October 7, 2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Some very early Airweights were made with non-magnetic alloy cylinders. These guns are quite rare and it's very unlikely that you have one, but if you do, DO NOT FIRE IT. The alloy cylinder is too weak to withstand anything but light target loads, which is why S&W stopped using them after only a couple of years. FWIW these guns are valuable collector's items. If you somehow stumbled across one, you should be able to sell it and buy several other guns, or maybe a gun and a nice vacation.

Also, do not send such a gun back to S&W for repair, refinishing, or anything else. From what I've heard, a alloy-cylinder gun will return from S&W with a steel cylinder thus ruining the collector value.

October 31, 2006, 09:28 PM	#1
gwsaunders Junior Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Posts: 2	What's the difference-.38 vs .38 special? Hello all, I'm new to handguns and need some help. I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson .38 S&W SPL. + P. I went to but some ammo so I can learn how to shoot and the guy told me if I had a .38 , that I couldn't use .38 special ammo. He said the case is longer in the special and I could injure myself by using the wrong ammo. Is this correct? I didn't really find any ammo that just said .38, it was all .38 special. I'm guessing my gun is indeed .38 Special ( since it has the SPL) but I just want to make sure before I go to the range so I don't lose a few fingers by using the wrong ammo. Thanks, Greg

October 31, 2006, 09:56 PM	#4
FRANK1669 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2006 Posts: 124	the 38 Smith and wesson is a very old cartridge that was originaly desined for black powder the rim thickness is a little less than the 38 special and the case overall length is much less. The 38 special I believe was next step in this cartridge, then they bumbed it up again to the 357 mag. If your barrel is marked 38 spl just stick with that. Better yet Does thre range you shot at sell ammo if so take it with you and get the ammo there the first time. Or if possible take it to the shop were you plan to get the ammo. One Last thought if you are new to shooting Welome to a great Hobby. It is fun but can be dangerous so look into some training before going off on your own. Good luck and enjoy __________________ It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

October 31, 2006, 10:58 PM	#6
joab Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2002 Location: Orl Fla Posts: 3,254	Just about any round that could be referred to as .38 is obsolete except the .38 special. Your dealer should have been able to ascertain what round you needed by simply asking you what gun you were buying for __________________ Joab the Bugman Founding member- Lords of Pomposity It's a Yankee Doodle thing

November 1, 2006, 04:03 PM	#10
Gonzo_308 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2000 Location: Sunbury, Ohio Posts: 1,367	Did he tell you about the time he destroyed an Iraqi tank with his Desert Eagle Sidearm? __________________ Loaded like a freight train, flyin' like an aeroplane!

November 3, 2006, 06:06 PM	#12
Gonzo_308 Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2000 Location: Sunbury, Ohio Posts: 1,367	Clay, we need to know what make/model gun it is. THere's a great liklihood he's fine and it's a 38 Spl but we can't say for certain without more info. __________________ Loaded like a freight train, flyin' like an aeroplane!

October 31, 2006, 09:46 PM	#2
skeeter1 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 3,403	Greg-- No need to worry. If it's a Smith marked .38Spl, it'll handle +Ps just fine. I'd suggest starting with 148gr. semi-wadcutters for target practice. Then get yourself a box of 125gr +Ps and have some real fun!

October 31, 2006, 09:52 PM	#3
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	Hi Greg and welcome to TFL. You are right that the SPL on the side of your barrel is for 'special'. You will never see a box that just says ".38" because there are several different types of ammunition in that caliber. (ie, .38 short colt, .38 long colt, .38 S&W, .38 WCF and etc.) Also if your gun is marked with the +P on the barrel it will fire .38 spl +P ammo as well, which is loaded a little more powerful than the standard .38 spl. Many guns that aren't marked +P will fire them also, although some shouldn't be used with them. Just in case that question ever comes up. Rod

October 31, 2006, 10:49 PM	#5
ISP2605 Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Posts: 954	The rd on the left is a .38 S&W SPL +P. The rd on the right is a .38 S&W. Yours is the one left. Some .38 SPL guns will chamber a .38 S&W rd but the rds are different and have different dimensions. Don't interchange them. You do not have to shoot +P rds in it but you need to get ammo that is labled either .38 S&W SPL or .38 SPL. Same rd, just labeled differently, depends who makes it. +P rd will be a hotter loaded rd. As long as you are just shooting at paper and unless you are loading for defense then there's no need to spend the extra money for +P and beat your gun with the hotter rd. I can't think of any company who is making .38 S&W guns right now. Lots of older guns chambered for that rd. Hasn't been much modern development of that rd and the companies that load that rd tend to keep them pretty mild due to all the old, and often cheap, guns chambered for it.

October 31, 2006, 11:27 PM	#7
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	The .38 S&W was a popular cartridge early in the 20th century and was chambered in some very compact revolvers. The .38 special came out in 1902 to give a boost to the .38 Long Colt, which proved to be a dismal stopper during the Phillipine war waged at the turn of the century. When S&W chamberd the .38 SPL in J frame revolvers (1950) it spelled the demise of other, less potent .38 & .32 compact revolvers. Your revolver is indeed a .38 Spl, and can handle any type of .38 loading.

November 1, 2006, 01:30 AM	#8
The Real Wyatt Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2006 Location: South Central KY Posts: 339	Just go to Walmart and ask for some 38's. Whatever they give you will be fine to shoot in your pistol. There ain't that much variation in the .38 cartridge today. Quit worrying about it.

November 1, 2006, 03:36 PM	#9
gwsaunders Junior Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Posts: 2	Awesome info! Thanks everyone. The fella at Bass Pro made it sound like I was going to blow my hand off if I shot ammo with the longer casing. Greg

November 3, 2006, 04:56 PM	#11
clayshooter2u Junior Member Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 12	I am shooting with a friend this weekend, and it took him forever to save the money to but this gun. He said it is a 38, I asked does it say 38 SPL on the side " NO " was the answer.I want to surprise him with some extra rounds while at the range. Are 38 Special 's OK ? As you can see by my user-name I'm NOT a pistol shooter.

November 3, 2006, 07:44 PM	#13
clayshooter2u Junior Member Join Date: September 16, 2006 Posts: 12	Gonz, Thanks for not beating me up on this, I will call and find out , thank you for your understanding. If you ever have a Sporting Clay or Shotgun O/U Question feel free to ask. Again Thanks

November 4, 2006, 11:23 AM	#14
walter in florida Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Location: Seminole County, Florida Posts: 240	38 or 38? I bought a S&W model 33-1 for 70 dollars and the pawn shop at that time thought he was pulling one over on me. He only put 38 revolver on the back gound check He did not tell me it was a 38S&W and I did not ask. I supect this happens a lot.

November 4, 2006, 12:20 PM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	"The 38 special I believe was next step in this cartridge (.38 S&W)..." Nope, it wasn't. The .38 S&W was an evolutionary dead end. When the US Military began having problems with the .38 Long Colt revolvers it was using the Philippines, Smith & Wesson started designing a more powerful cartridge that they hoped they could sell to the military. They took the .38 Long Colt, lengthened the case so that it would hold 21.5 grains of black powder, and increased the lead round nose bullet weight to 158-grains. Velocity was around 800 fps. That load became THE .38 Spl. load, and for years was the standard police load in this country. It's still loaded today. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 5, 2011, 02:07 AM	#16
skiwesser Junior Member Join Date: October 5, 2011 Posts: 4	Which bullets can I use? Hi guys, I'm new to shooting so I'll probably have a ton a stupid questions! first what all cartridges can I use in my S&W airweight 38 SPL. CTG. ? You guys said SPL is special right, that's what I figured, what does the CTG> mean? Also what do you guys think of this particular handgun? I like it, it's light. trigger doesn't require much pull, scared me first time. hair trigger I guess. Thanks in advance Wes

October 5, 2011, 07:52 AM	#20
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	I have seen .38 Super ammo locally; that is the only thing you could confuse with .38 spl that is available where I am. But it wouldn't load in a revolver (I think) because it doesn't have a rim. __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

October 5, 2011, 07:55 AM	#21
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	.38 Super has a very tiny rim. In fact, it's possible to fire the .38 Super in a .357 Mag. revolver. There's just enough rim. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 5, 2011, 08:35 AM	#22
Daryl Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Posts: 2,350	".38" is a caliber. ".38 special" is a cartridge. That's the difference. Daryl

October 5, 2011, 08:48 AM	#23
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	I was going to say something about reading the instructions but then I went to the S&W site and looked at the Owner's Manual. It is generic for all models and calibers of recent production revolvers and the material in it about standard and +P ammunition is confusing to ME and I have been doing this stuff for 50+ years. At one time you would have gotten a leaflet that listed suitable ammunition for that model. It would have said something like ".38 S&W Special also accepting .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 Special Midrange, .38 Special, and .38-44 High Velocity" .38-44 High Velocity was the equivalent of +P+ and would have been recommended only for the big N frame .38s and .357 Magnums. SPL is the abbreviation for Special. CTG is the abbreviation for Cartridge. The all caps marking seems to confuse the novice gunowner, but that is all it is, no secret code; although I have been tempted to make something up. (If you see an older gun marked, say, .32 S&W CTGE, it is not a Smith and Wesson, it is a minor make like Harrington and Richardson or Iver Johnson in the .32 S&W CALIBER. Smith and Wesson do not, did not use CTGE as an abbreviation for Cartridge.)

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