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Old May 16, 2018, 07:40 PM   #51
stonewall50
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Originally Posted by Unconventional View Post
I think the OP means to ask what features does the AR lack that you wish it had? How many of these features together in one rifle would cause you to prefer that hypothetical rifle over an AR?

I doubt he was asking "in what situation would you literally abandon an AR" like in some sorry SHTF scenario question.

OP, am I correct?


Yes. I guess I will word way more carefully next time. This isn’t my primary discussion forum.


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Old May 16, 2018, 07:43 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Not very much .

I didn't like them in 1968 and I still don't .

Am I the only person in the USA who doesn't own a AR15 ?

I will take an M1 or M14 any day.

Gary


I do not own one. If I could get one for $350 that is an excellent rifle (my father got one from my brother in law that he pre built after bulk order at that price). But I’d rather have an AUG. Mainly just to be different. But I also like the idea of a 16 inch barrel that is SBR length overall.


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Old May 16, 2018, 07:50 PM   #53
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Death.
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Old May 16, 2018, 08:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Am I the only person in the USA who doesn't own a AR15 ?
I will take an M1 or M14 any day.
Not at all. I know plenty of shooters who don't own one and have no desire to own one. I figure people own assorted rifles for assorted reasons and many simply have no reason or desire to own an AR.

Ron
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Old May 16, 2018, 09:10 PM   #55
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Yep, i like The Steyr AUG too. i have one of the pre- AWB models.

In the runup to Desert Storm i was an advisor to the Saudi military. i bought a rock and roll model AUG in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for $400. Got it cheap because it's setup for a left hander. Too bad i could not bring it home, gave it to a Saudi friend.

An AUG video;

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...0C90&FORM=VIRE
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Old May 16, 2018, 10:48 PM   #56
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I have a trio of ARX-100's. Piston driven, ambi, lightweight and extremely reliable.

The AR-15's draw is it's endlessly customizable with more parts suppliers & options than anything else. It's the Lego of rifles.
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Old May 16, 2018, 11:48 PM   #57
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Yes, the draw of the AR and the only reason that I own more than one is because the easy assembly and the components available for them.
You can make them at your leisure. You can basically decide how you want each one. This is during times of plenty.

If it weren’t for the reasons above, I wouldn’t have ever gotten into ARs.

My work horse rifle was and always will be my Mini14.

ARs have become something to do during times I can’t shoot, lol
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Old May 17, 2018, 01:26 AM   #58
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Three things have to occur and not necessarily in any order.

1. Loss of interest.
2. Trade for an M16
3. Lots of money of which I already have. So make it a big offer.
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Old May 17, 2018, 04:33 AM   #59
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steyer aug

lot of opinions. 25 years ago i had the chance to practice with an aug not on my dime. beer cans at 300 yards got pretty consistent this with that 1.5 scope. managed to hit railroad spikes at 100 yards not as often as the cans. still have one of those spikes. BUT those days are over at 81 and quite shaky anymore. aug all the way
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Old May 17, 2018, 11:39 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
Yes, the draw of the AR and the only reason that I own more than one is because the easy assembly and the components available for them.
You can make them at your leisure. You can basically decide how you want each one.
This is the virtue and the danger.

One thing I see nowhere, maybe because no one wants it, is a manual bolt with exterior handle and an upper cut for it, sort of an RPR, but with standard AR lower and barrel.

With space for eight lugs in the barrel extension, a 45 degree bolt lift should be pretty quick.
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:25 PM   #61
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Zukiphile, do you mean something like a side-charger AR?
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Old May 17, 2018, 12:42 PM   #62
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No, I mean something like this with a handle that one uses to lock, unlock and drive the bolt in both directions.

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Old May 18, 2018, 07:05 AM   #63
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I guess it could be done if you cut a channel in the bolt for the hammer in the lower to hit the firing pin. I’m guessing the market is limited enough that the price would make you cry though.
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Old May 18, 2018, 07:22 AM   #64
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Here is my list of rifles that I like better than the AR-15:
1. FN FNC
2. Sig 550 (Swiss lower)
3. CZ 805 BREN S1 Carbine
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Old May 18, 2018, 07:48 AM   #65
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A complete and utter stability in the rate of school shootings.

I mean, I have kids too.

I'm a millennial and I didn't grow up with active shooter drills. I think it's a failure on our end that my kids will.
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Old May 18, 2018, 08:18 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR
I guess it could be done if you cut a channel in the bolt for the hammer in the lower to hit the firing pin. I’m guessing the market is limited enough that the price would make you cry though.
Making me cry over price would be easy.

I don't think the challenge is design and engineering, but limited audience.

A Tubb rifle can be a five figure proposition. I envision a poor man's Tubb rifle - a bolt action with AR ergonomics and more AR parts than an RPR. I don't think the bolt design would be the problem - with the gas key removed and the back half of the barrier cut off, one should be left with a cylindrical shape that can rotate.

The design problem I see is the upper itself. With a channel for a bolt handle running all the way out the back of the upper the whole thing will be less stable and rigid. Maybe a steel upper would be the answer. since the charge handle would not be an element, that might be an area to add material as well.

This would allow construction of a free floated bolt action rifle with any AR lower, barrel and handguard. It seems like a reasonable extension of AR modularity.

EDIT - I can see the objection that this is a lot of trouble for little benefit. One might get much of that benefit from a side charge handle. I've never seen one that didn't look delicate or clumsy to use, and are optimised for semi-automatic rifles.

Last edited by zukiphile; May 18, 2018 at 10:12 AM.
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Old May 18, 2018, 11:35 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile
The design problem I see is the upper itself. With a channel for a bolt handle running all the way out the back of the upper the whole thing will be less stable and rigid. Maybe a steel upper would be the answer. since the charge handle would not be an element, that might be an area to add material as well.
I didn’t even think about that, though I should have since just recently I’d watched a presentation from a guy touting a new AR upper and sharing his research that the existing AR upper actually flexes opposite the ejection port. He had reinforced the side opposite the ejection port and then trimmed down the forward assist and left rear of the receiver to keep the weight the same and make what he claimed was a more rigid upper.

In any case, if the semi-AR upper flexes, I imagine you are probably right about one with a traditional bolt handle.
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Old May 18, 2018, 01:06 PM   #68
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Bolt action uppers are available for the AR10 pattern lower.

http://uintahprecision.com/product/b...pper-assembly/
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Old May 18, 2018, 01:35 PM   #69
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Thanks, 9x19. That's exactly what I meant to convey. Your search skills are outstanding.
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Old May 18, 2018, 04:53 PM   #70
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FPNI... and from my cold dead hands.
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Old May 18, 2018, 05:15 PM   #71
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I like to build my own firearms I was building AKs until the price went out of sight. Then I switched to ARs because I can build pistols & rifles I can hunt with. I know the AR is not really a build more like an assembly unless you do 80% builds.
I would set my ARs aside if they came out with a semi auto shotgun build kit
or a legal full auto that I could afford to shoot.
But there is no way I'll ever give up my builds while I'm breathing & have ammo to shoot.
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Old May 19, 2018, 05:01 AM   #72
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A smoking empty AR and bayonets at my throat
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Old May 19, 2018, 02:56 PM   #73
stonewall50
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Originally Posted by stormyone View Post
Death.


So if someone came up with a superior rifle design you would continue to use an outdated weapon platform?


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Old May 19, 2018, 03:13 PM   #74
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Show me this "superior rifle design" first, then I'll decide.

For me, the AUG wasn't it, neither was the Daewoo or Valmet, nor is the SCAR, nor the Tavor.

I'm guessing after this, you'll head over to the SA handguns forum and ask what would make folks abandon their 1911s?
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Old May 19, 2018, 03:47 PM   #75
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Quote:
So if someone came up with a superior rifle design you would continue to use an outdated weapon platform?
Got lots of lever guns and vintage rifles--love em all.
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