.243 Winchester and elk: FIRSTHAND experiences requested. - Page 3

AZAK · June 10, 2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

As the two threads are now, I will not even refer my friend to either.

I do not often try to tell someone their business, OK Maybe I do, but:

Censoring good information and steering your friend away from a forum of experienced and knowledgeable resources that can be found here and at The High Road sounds to me like you might be trying to sell a 243!

There is a reason that you are receiving the replies that you are.

Buck up and smell the coffee my friend!!!

And yes I have shot 243, and would never take one elk hunting, see my previous reply to this thread.

Happy Trails

Chuck Dye · June 10, 2008, 10:47 AM

ELMOUSMC and AZAK,

The friends whom I would like to persuade in this matter are literate and search engine capable. They have more than adequate access to libraries and the net. There are no shortages of gun shop Nimrods, ballisticians, or gun rag fueled pedants (*sigh*). The problem I had hoped to overcome with my original post is that there is a paucity of primary sources who can say "I shot an X pound bull at Y yards with load Z, this is what resulted."

My friends and I know why most believe the .243 Win inadequate to marginal for elk. I solicited help from those who know from first hand experience. I received very few reports. Surprisingly most are success stories, but self selected samples make for lousy statistics. As the tag lotteries dole out opportunities, my friends will begin compiling their own data.

ZeroJunk · June 10, 2008, 11:17 AM

If I had a failure on an Elk with a 243 I would be remiss in posting it on a forum knowing that most any knowledgeable person reading would think I was foolish for using it. I suspect that skews your results.

Or, the hunters having success with the cartridge are seasoned rifleman, and understand perfectly well it's capabilities, not the novice described in the OP.

Quote:

paucity of primary sources who can say

Translate. Shortage of hunter's without better sense.

Must be some kind of testosterone thing since it is completely void of logic.

Chuck Dye · June 10, 2008, 11:38 AM

AZAK,

There is no "censoring" involved, not of good information or web noise, I will merely not refer.

There is no "steering away" involved, just no steering toward.

There are precious few "experienced and knowledgeable resources" involved. (On the web, even the responsive replies to my request must be viewed as potentially fictitious.)

The only dog I have in this fight is the time and effort I will invest should we need to track a wounded animal. I have nothing to sell.

There are several reasons I expected few responsive answers: TFL and THR are likely read by a very small minority of elk hunters; only a small minority of those readers have experience with the .243 Win. on elk; a minority of those with such experience are likely to respond, especially if their experience is negative. My disappointment here is the terrible signal-to-noise ratio.

Any smell of coffee here has long since been overwhelmed by the stench of dogma.

Never have, never will? You should not have answered a call for firsthand experience.

ZeroJunk · June 10, 2008, 12:30 PM

I am thinking about taking up deer hunting and I don't want them to get away.
I am considering either a 30/378 or a 460 WBY.

I only want responses from people who have hunted deer with these too calibers and will consider anything else nimrod periodical regurgitation.

I also want to pull my 36 foot camper on the hunting trips with a Chevy S10 and would only like responses from those with experience doing this.

What a crock.

ELMOUSMC · June 10, 2008, 02:32 PM

I have never fired a gun before but I want to try varmint hunting,an inexperenced friend of mine said I should use a Rigby .500 nitro express.I would only like comments from people who have used this caliber for groundhog and chipmunks ELMOUSMC:barf:

birdshot · June 10, 2008, 02:33 PM

i have used the 458 loaded with remington 500 RNSP on a young doe. est live weight 100 lbs. a chest shot at 50 yards, i did not recover the bullet. seemed to be adequate. i am sure you could expect similiar results with your 460. i have found these calibers really shine when used to bag ceramic fixtures found in the dumps. i don't have any first hand info concerning your s-10 so i won't comment further.

ZeroJunk · June 10, 2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

seemed to be adequate.

LOL

**Bud Helms** · June 10, 2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Have you shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Have you been present when other hunters shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Are you a guide whose customers have shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Chuck, nice try, but this is the internet and TFL is a bulletin board on that *net. As reasonable as your requests may be, it is part of the deal to receive responses that don't fit your requirements for an answer. You probably have used your Google skills to find your answers by this time.

Though I'm sure there are several good, thoughtful, experienced answers in this thread, this is not one of them:

Quote:

I do not often try to tell someone their business, OK Maybe I do, but:

Censoring good information and steering your friend away from a forum of experienced and knowledgeable resources that can be found here and at The High Road sounds to me like you might be trying to sell a 243!

There is a reason that you are receiving the replies that you are.

Buck up and smell the coffee my friend!!!

And yes I have shot 243, and would never take one elk hunting, see my previous reply to this thread.

Happy Trails

Neither is this:

Quote:

I have never fired a gun before but I want to try varmint hunting,an inexperenced friend of mine said I should use a Rigby .500 nitro express.I would only like comments from people who have used this caliber for groundhog and chipmunks ELMOUSMC

A couple of other comments:

1) An anecdote is not necessarily an oxymoron.

2) We do not live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic.

Now that this thread has my attention, I would advise refraining from posting any more unnessecarily argumentive, repetitive or uncivil replies. That goes for everyone in this thread. Or you could just wait until Art gets back online. He has a talent for making you smile while he does what is required. I do not.

Art Eatman · June 10, 2008, 07:14 PM

Now that I'm back from beeyootiful Alpine, affectionately known by us South Brewster County locals as Alpendejo, I can get back to playing moderator. Momma will allow that, now that the groceries are unloaded.

Anyhow, this thread started May 25th. It hasn't produced much in the way of positive results.

Let's not waste any more bandwidth, okay?

Art

Edit-add: This post came via PM from ZeroJunk:

"I have hunted Elk twenty some years. It will cost me $6000 this year. I have spent at least $75,000 on Elk hunting most of it going to outfitters and Mt Fish Wildlife and Parks.
I have spent 23 weeks camped in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Most on Lynx Creek hunting Biggs flats on the N fork Of the Sun river. Some on Cox Creek above the Flathead and some on Whitetail Creek above the Dearborn. Since I take between 6 and 8 people I have introduced dozens of new Elk hunters to the sport, contributing many thousands of dollars to the industry.
The smallest cartridge I have seen used is 270 Winchester. I use 280AI or 30/06 if I am rifle hunting.

The outfitter who I have known forever requires a minimum of 160 grain. He's the one that has to track the animal all over and try to get mules in to wherever after a bad shot.
Tell him you want to use a 243 and he will simply tell you to go somewhere else.

I've seen dozens killed and a few lost. I have seen some killed with a shot placement where a 243 would never have the penetration necessary.

Anybody is free to decide whether my opinion is worthwhile or not, but I will give it when something is going in a direction that my experience indicates makes no sense."

June 10, 2008, 10:47 AM	#52
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	ELMOUSMC and AZAK, The friends whom I would like to persuade in this matter are literate and search engine capable. They have more than adequate access to libraries and the net. There are no shortages of gun shop Nimrods, ballisticians, or gun rag fueled pedants (sigh). The problem I had hoped to overcome with my original post is that there is a paucity of primary sources who can say "I shot an X pound bull at Y yards with load Z, this is what resulted." My friends and I know why most believe the .243 Win inadequate to marginal for elk. I solicited help from those who know from first hand experience. I received very few reports. Surprisingly most are success stories, but self selected samples make for lousy statistics. As the tag lotteries dole out opportunities, my friends will begin compiling their own data. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

June 10, 2008, 11:38 AM	#54
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	AZAK, There is no "censoring" involved, not of good information or web noise, I will merely not refer. There is no "steering away" involved, just no steering toward. There are precious few "experienced and knowledgeable resources" involved. (On the web, even the responsive replies to my request must be viewed as potentially fictitious.) The only dog I have in this fight is the time and effort I will invest should we need to track a wounded animal. I have nothing to sell. There are several reasons I expected few responsive answers: TFL and THR are likely read by a very small minority of elk hunters; only a small minority of those readers have experience with the .243 Win. on elk; a minority of those with such experience are likely to respond, especially if their experience is negative. My disappointment here is the terrible signal-to-noise ratio. Any smell of coffee here has long since been overwhelmed by the stench of dogma. Never have, never will? You should not have answered a call for firsthand experience. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

June 10, 2008, 02:32 PM	#56
ELMOUSMC Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2007 Location: N.E.IOWA Posts: 384	I have never fired a gun before but I want to try varmint hunting,an inexperenced friend of mine said I should use a Rigby .500 nitro express.I would only like comments from people who have used this caliber for groundhog and chipmunks ELMOUSMC:barf: __________________ USMC 1965-1992 For God,Country,Corps

June 10, 2008, 02:33 PM	#57
birdshot Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: north platte nebraska Posts: 344	460 will work i have used the 458 loaded with remington 500 RNSP on a young doe. est live weight 100 lbs. a chest shot at 50 yards, i did not recover the bullet. seemed to be adequate. i am sure you could expect similiar results with your 460. i have found these calibers really shine when used to bag ceramic fixtures found in the dumps. i don't have any first hand info concerning your s-10 so i won't comment further.

June 10, 2008, 12:30 PM	#55
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I am thinking about taking up deer hunting and I don't want them to get away. I am considering either a 30/378 or a 460 WBY. I only want responses from people who have hunted deer with these too calibers and will consider anything else nimrod periodical regurgitation. I also want to pull my 36 foot camper on the hunting trips with a Chevy S10 and would only like responses from those with experience doing this. What a crock.

June 10, 2008, 07:14 PM	#60
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Now that I'm back from beeyootiful Alpine, affectionately known by us South Brewster County locals as Alpendejo, I can get back to playing moderator. Momma will allow that, now that the groceries are unloaded. Anyhow, this thread started May 25th. It hasn't produced much in the way of positive results. Let's not waste any more bandwidth, okay? Art Edit-add: This post came via PM from ZeroJunk: "I have hunted Elk twenty some years. It will cost me $6000 this year. I have spent at least $75,000 on Elk hunting most of it going to outfitters and Mt Fish Wildlife and Parks. I have spent 23 weeks camped in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Most on Lynx Creek hunting Biggs flats on the N fork Of the Sun river. Some on Cox Creek above the Flathead and some on Whitetail Creek above the Dearborn. Since I take between 6 and 8 people I have introduced dozens of new Elk hunters to the sport, contributing many thousands of dollars to the industry. The smallest cartridge I have seen used is 270 Winchester. I use 280AI or 30/06 if I am rifle hunting. The outfitter who I have known forever requires a minimum of 160 grain. He's the one that has to track the animal all over and try to get mules in to wherever after a bad shot. Tell him you want to use a 243 and he will simply tell you to go somewhere else. I've seen dozens killed and a few lost. I have seen some killed with a shot placement where a 243 would never have the penetration necessary. Anybody is free to decide whether my opinion is worthwhile or not, but I will give it when something is going in a direction that my experience indicates makes no sense."