Gun Restraining Orders - Page 2

fredvon4 · March 14, 2018, 02:43 PM

Devil is always in the logistics, rules, details

I have way too many personal knowledge of Husband or/and Wife Lying about domestic crap to have any faith in ANY system to derive the truth and preserve either citizens full right to due process and a FAIR impartial judgment....

Domestic violence is real and I know it first hand with a LOT of my soldier families over 24 year career.... UN fortunately too many of the incidents resulted in my soldier...both female and male being arrested, cuffed and stuffed ...just on the say so of the other person claims to being in fear for their life

later deep instigation revealed a complete opposite set of events, threats and actions

I personally as a First Sergeant was accused of sexual misconduct... fortunately since E-6 Staff sergeant I had a personal, strict, "never be alone during counseling"

IG investigated, interviewed my witnesses, reviewed all my past counseling paper work to that soldier.... and found me good to go.... BUT for three weeks I was suspended from Job and had chain of command thinking I might need to go away

I personally do not know the answer because I have seen to many beat near to death spouses.... but leaving it too arbitrary and in the realm of "he said she said" I have a serious problem with

I also have another concern on same lines....Gulf war 91 helicopter crash...survived later pretty significant PTSD.... took year but eventual VA Mental Health...later needed a Top Secret clearance...had a chat with my shrink of the sooner or later review by the investigators.... he told me they respond all the time with their assessment of the patient...and told me that they had already asked about me...while he would NOT give ma a copy of the response he told me not to worry....I got the ckearance

I asked him if MY conditions were reported to any outside agency... and told him I was considering of I should get the new Concealed Carry License and they had questions on the application about mental health...he told me apply nothing in you diagnoses or observed behavior precludes you from being an 100% full rights citizen

Over time he an I have had many discussions on these issues

I got the sense that this One psychiatrist took his job seriously and knew the implications of his diagnosis, writing, and opinions....

BUT over the last 20 years I have been seen by MANY VA sociologists who gave me the impression they are not so constitutional minded an very hard nosed anti gun.... I am very careful in my interaction with these folks

I guess point is....too much grief can be caused by people in power with NO clear facts to asses and too may others have a bias and agenda... with the power to remove or restrict rights....Then it is a expensive and burden to fight an up hill battle to be made whole

Glenn E. Meyer · March 14, 2018, 02:44 PM

Sociologists? Didn't know the VA had those.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 14, 2018, 05:21 PM

You might be surprised what the VA has. Did you know they have chiropractors, and acupuncturists? The VA hospital I go to has both. Many people consider both to be quacks.

Glenn E. Meyer · March 14, 2018, 05:25 PM

Sociologists can't be quacks. I think the poster meant psychologists.

Koda94 · March 17, 2018, 12:21 PM

I could also see this as a way for an abuser to disarm the victim...

"judge, we got into an argument and she threatened to shoot me if I came over I think she should have her guns removed shes violent"

rc · March 27, 2018, 11:33 PM

Walk into a job, have a bad day, yell at a coworker, have the cops show up at your house because somebody who has a grudge found a reason to get back at you. The burden of proof is basically zero! It's like mexico where you are guilty until proven innocent. rc

Jeff22 · March 28, 2018, 03:26 AM

This is an excellent discussion.

Anytime a change in the law is considered, what unintended consequences might result should be considered as well.

As a cop I think some kind of protective order prohibiting some people from having access to firearms would be a good thing. But as a cop, I have also witnessed some outright lying and attempts at instigating a problem because one person wanted an advantage in a divorce settlement or child custody proceeding.

It's a complicated issue and passing bad law because elected representatives want to show that they're "doing something" is always a danger. Doesn't matter what the law is

March 14, 2018, 02:44 PM	#27
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Sociologists? Didn't know the VA had those. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

March 14, 2018, 05:25 PM	#29
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Sociologists can't be quacks. I think the poster meant psychologists. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

March 17, 2018, 12:21 PM	#30
Koda94 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Cascadia Posts: 1,294	I could also see this as a way for an abuser to disarm the victim... "judge, we got into an argument and she threatened to shoot me if I came over I think she should have her guns removed shes violent" __________________ lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

March 27, 2018, 11:33 PM	#31
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	Slippery Slope Walk into a job, have a bad day, yell at a coworker, have the cops show up at your house because somebody who has a grudge found a reason to get back at you. The burden of proof is basically zero! It's like mexico where you are guilty until proven innocent. rc

March 28, 2018, 03:26 AM	#32
Jeff22 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2004 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 715	This is an excellent discussion. Anytime a change in the law is considered, what unintended consequences might result should be considered as well. As a cop I think some kind of protective order prohibiting some people from having access to firearms would be a good thing. But as a cop, I have also witnessed some outright lying and attempts at instigating a problem because one person wanted an advantage in a divorce settlement or child custody proceeding. It's a complicated issue and passing bad law because elected representatives want to show that they're "doing something" is always a danger. Doesn't matter what the law is __________________ You can only learn from experience if you pay attention!

March 14, 2018, 02:43 PM	#26
fredvon4 Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2010 Location: Lampasas Texas Posts: 154	Devil is always in the logistics, rules, details I have way too many personal knowledge of Husband or/and Wife Lying about domestic crap to have any faith in ANY system to derive the truth and preserve either citizens full right to due process and a FAIR impartial judgment.... Domestic violence is real and I know it first hand with a LOT of my soldier families over 24 year career.... UN fortunately too many of the incidents resulted in my soldier...both female and male being arrested, cuffed and stuffed ...just on the say so of the other person claims to being in fear for their life later deep instigation revealed a complete opposite set of events, threats and actions I personally as a First Sergeant was accused of sexual misconduct... fortunately since E-6 Staff sergeant I had a personal, strict, "never be alone during counseling" IG investigated, interviewed my witnesses, reviewed all my past counseling paper work to that soldier.... and found me good to go.... BUT for three weeks I was suspended from Job and had chain of command thinking I might need to go away I personally do not know the answer because I have seen to many beat near to death spouses.... but leaving it too arbitrary and in the realm of "he said she said" I have a serious problem with I also have another concern on same lines....Gulf war 91 helicopter crash...survived later pretty significant PTSD.... took year but eventual VA Mental Health...later needed a Top Secret clearance...had a chat with my shrink of the sooner or later review by the investigators.... he told me they respond all the time with their assessment of the patient...and told me that they had already asked about me...while he would NOT give ma a copy of the response he told me not to worry....I got the ckearance I asked him if MY conditions were reported to any outside agency... and told him I was considering of I should get the new Concealed Carry License and they had questions on the application about mental health...he told me apply nothing in you diagnoses or observed behavior precludes you from being an 100% full rights citizen Over time he an I have had many discussions on these issues I got the sense that this One psychiatrist took his job seriously and knew the implications of his diagnosis, writing, and opinions.... BUT over the last 20 years I have been seen by MANY VA sociologists who gave me the impression they are not so constitutional minded an very hard nosed anti gun.... I am very careful in my interaction with these folks I guess point is....too much grief can be caused by people in power with NO clear facts to asses and too may others have a bias and agenda... with the power to remove or restrict rights....Then it is a expensive and burden to fight an up hill battle to be made whole

March 14, 2018, 05:21 PM	#28
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,462	You might be surprised what the VA has. Did you know they have chiropractors, and acupuncturists? The VA hospital I go to has both. Many people consider both to be quacks.