Blue prints for subguns.

Conservative · April 22, 2000, 08:47 AM

I am interested in WWI and WWII subguns. However I cannot begin to afford one. (Newly married and have a baby on the way!!) As a second choice I am considering collecting blue prints. Where can I purchase good quality accurate prints? I am also concerned that if I have prints that I could be charged with conspiring to build machineguns. Is that a valid concern? What if I have prints for the sten gun and then purchase a deactivated sten? I also have access to machine tools, which means that if I have the prints I could build whatever I want. With all that said am I better off not even thinking about collecting any blue prints. I absolutly cannot afford to risk getting on the bad side of the JBTs.

fal308 · April 24, 2000, 08:43 AM

Not really sure but I would imagine that this is a grey area and it would depend on the local agents.
Technically, owning the blueprints and parts kit is legal. Having a tube of the correct physical properties and the parts kit could possibly be an infraction of possession of an unregistered machinegun. With access to machine equipment and the parts kit an overzealous agent could make trouble for you and make it expensive to extricate yourself from legal proceedings.
This is rather more common problem than thought. Many people buy AR15 replacement parts and many of the replacement parts sold are actually M16 surplus parts. Thus if your hammer breaks and you go to a show and buy a replacement surplus hammer, you may have inadvertently "made" a machinegun, in the eyes of the BATF, if the hammer was actually an M16 hammer. The firearm will not operate in a full auto mode but simply having the FA hammer and a semi-auto AR puts one in technical violation of the law. The hammer doesn't even have to be installed in the firearm, it only has to be in the same domicile IIRC.

Conservative · April 24, 2000, 11:15 AM

Thanks for the info.

I will avoid having a tube of correct dimensions about. That said where can good prints be found??

fal308 · April 25, 2000, 08:30 AM

Not really sure where you could find blueprints per se but there are books and periodicals out that have machinist's drawings of many firearms. I saw some at Knob Creek the other weekend. I would imagine that Delta Press and/or Palladin Press may have what you're looking for in book form. You might also try Bower's board www.subguns.com as occassionally I've seen blueprints over there. Big Jim's Machinegun Sanctuary www.bigjimsmgs.com is another source with great links.

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2000, 07:04 AM

try http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2000, 07:06 AM

http://www.wexworx.com

April 22, 2000, 08:47 AM	#1
Conservative Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: Goshen, IN USA Posts: 39	I am interested in WWI and WWII subguns. However I cannot begin to afford one. (Newly married and have a baby on the way!!) As a second choice I am considering collecting blue prints. Where can I purchase good quality accurate prints? I am also concerned that if I have prints that I could be charged with conspiring to build machineguns. Is that a valid concern? What if I have prints for the sten gun and then purchase a deactivated sten? I also have access to machine tools, which means that if I have the prints I could build whatever I want. With all that said am I better off not even thinking about collecting any blue prints. I absolutly cannot afford to risk getting on the bad side of the JBTs.

April 24, 2000, 08:43 AM	#2
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Not really sure but I would imagine that this is a grey area and it would depend on the local agents. Technically, owning the blueprints and parts kit is legal. Having a tube of the correct physical properties and the parts kit could possibly be an infraction of possession of an unregistered machinegun. With access to machine equipment and the parts kit an overzealous agent could make trouble for you and make it expensive to extricate yourself from legal proceedings. This is rather more common problem than thought. Many people buy AR15 replacement parts and many of the replacement parts sold are actually M16 surplus parts. Thus if your hammer breaks and you go to a show and buy a replacement surplus hammer, you may have inadvertently "made" a machinegun, in the eyes of the BATF, if the hammer was actually an M16 hammer. The firearm will not operate in a full auto mode but simply having the FA hammer and a semi-auto AR puts one in technical violation of the law. The hammer doesn't even have to be installed in the firearm, it only has to be in the same domicile IIRC.

April 24, 2000, 11:15 AM	#3
Conservative Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: Goshen, IN USA Posts: 39	Thanks for the info. I will avoid having a tube of correct dimensions about. That said where can good prints be found??

April 25, 2000, 08:30 AM	#4
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Not really sure where you could find blueprints per se but there are books and periodicals out that have machinist's drawings of many firearms. I saw some at Knob Creek the other weekend. I would imagine that Delta Press and/or Palladin Press may have what you're looking for in book form. You might also try Bower's board www.subguns.com as occassionally I've seen blueprints over there. Big Jim's Machinegun Sanctuary www.bigjimsmgs.com is another source with great links.

April 30, 2000, 07:04 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	try http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad

April 30, 2000, 07:06 AM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	http://www.wexworx.com