Norma r123 equivalent?

nhyrum · March 26, 2017, 11:36 PM

So, I just bought a 10mm 1911,and, well, doing what men do(which isn't always smart) want to get some warm(OK, let's be real, HOT loads) loaded up. The original Norma loads used r123. Looking at a table, it lists h110 as an equivalent... Really...??? Like... Really??? There's no way I'm loading h110 in the 10. I know h110 needs to be near compressed. Which would be probably about 20 grains... Yeah, no. Even with new starline brass...

Guess longshot, aa9, and blue dot are my best bet... Unless anyone has loaded h110 in 10. I'm looking to push 180-200 grain bullets 1200+

Here's where I got that equivalent

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...quivalents.asp

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**Unclenick** · March 27, 2017, 08:26 AM

I think you got some bad information about Norma 123 being used. QuickLOAD thinks the expansion ratio of the 10 mm Auto is too high for it. I tried several bullet weights with 100% loading density of R123 and H110/296 and peak pressure predictions struggled to get past about half the maximum pressure rating for this cartridge. Bottom line: both powders are too slow for the combination of the height of the powder column and weight of the bullets normally used in it. The bullets don't move very far before the powder burning space is doubled, and the typical bullet weights aren't great enough to slow that movement enough to let these slow powders build pressure up. The bottom line is, these powders just can't make gas fast enough to keep up with the rate of expansion in this chambering.

A quick look through several manuals shows Blue Dot loads are consistently listed in the top velocity range, so I think you made a good call to choose that.

Astocks2622 · March 28, 2017, 05:52 AM

Hello. I shoot a Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) Stock 1 in 10mm, and have been able to safely push 200gr hardcast and XTP's 1250 fps.
I didn't like blue dot. To much flash and show.
I ended up using AA#9 and 800X. Both worked well. I can pm my data if you're interested.

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March 26, 2017, 11:36 PM	#1
nhyrum Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2016 Posts: 588	Norma r123 equivalent? So, I just bought a 10mm 1911,and, well, doing what men do(which isn't always smart) want to get some warm(OK, let's be real, HOT loads) loaded up. The original Norma loads used r123. Looking at a table, it lists h110 as an equivalent... Really...??? Like... Really??? There's no way I'm loading h110 in the 10. I know h110 needs to be near compressed. Which would be probably about 20 grains... Yeah, no. Even with new starline brass... Guess longshot, aa9, and blue dot are my best bet... Unless anyone has loaded h110 in 10. I'm looking to push 180-200 grain bullets 1200+ Here's where I got that equivalent http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...quivalents.asp Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

March 27, 2017, 08:26 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I think you got some bad information about Norma 123 being used. QuickLOAD thinks the expansion ratio of the 10 mm Auto is too high for it. I tried several bullet weights with 100% loading density of R123 and H110/296 and peak pressure predictions struggled to get past about half the maximum pressure rating for this cartridge. Bottom line: both powders are too slow for the combination of the height of the powder column and weight of the bullets normally used in it. The bullets don't move very far before the powder burning space is doubled, and the typical bullet weights aren't great enough to slow that movement enough to let these slow powders build pressure up. The bottom line is, these powders just can't make gas fast enough to keep up with the rate of expansion in this chambering. A quick look through several manuals shows Blue Dot loads are consistently listed in the top velocity range, so I think you made a good call to choose that. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 28, 2017, 05:52 AM	#3
Astocks2622 Member Join Date: February 1, 2014 Posts: 97	Hello. I shoot a Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) Stock 1 in 10mm, and have been able to safely push 200gr hardcast and XTP's 1250 fps. I didn't like blue dot. To much flash and show. I ended up using AA#9 and 800X. Both worked well. I can pm my data if you're interested. Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk