New Year's Plan - old Mausers

ligonierbill · December 28, 2017, 10:44 AM

My resolution should be, "Quit foolin' with 'em and shoot", but not to be. The '35 Brazilian had a good session before Christmas, but the old girl won't do better than 2", usually 3". She has the original barrel, and I haven't tried to bed the action, but I think it's time for a new barrel. The only question is, 8x57 or 9.3x62?

Enter yet another addition to Bill's Home for Aged Mausers, a Polish K29 made in Radom in 1930. Hadn't even heard of these. The model is listed in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, but no further mention is made. I know that after WWI, Poland took over Danzig, now Gdansk, and took the tooling first to Warsaw, then to Radom. I understand that a rifle in original condition from there commands a premium, but mine is "sporterized", stock replaced, original barrel cut down, sights removed and drilled and tapped. When I get it, I will mount a scope and see how it shoots. The seller noted wear on the rifling. We shall see. If it's a good shooter, I will shoot 8x57 from the Pole and rebarrel the Brazilian to 9.3. If not, I guess they both get new tubes, one of each.

So much for a sensible New Year. Anyone shooting a Radom Mauser?

oldscot3 · December 28, 2017, 06:56 PM

No Polish mausers but I have a couple Persians and a couple Argentines. I'm a fan of 8x57 and 7.65 Argentine but one of my '09 Argentines has been rebarrelled to 7 x57 and it's nice too.

I've been intrigued by 9.3 x 62 but I can't figure it for a plinker. Do you plan on hunting moose?

hooligan1 · December 30, 2017, 07:57 AM

Let me see here,
1. Turk m38, 6.506
2. Turk m38, 6.5 Creedmoor
3. Turk m38 full military config. with bayonet.
4. 1891 Argentine, custom but original barrel with stock cut down.
5. 1895 Chilean, 7x57 mauser full military with bayonet
6. 1908 Brazilian, (all parts matching) 7x57
7. Mark X Zastava, commercial rifle .270 winchester.
8. Mark X Zastava, commercial rifle .243 winchester.

About sums up my cache of Mauser actions, except a 1903 Turk, (action only) that hasnt arrived to my ffl at this writing, will be a 7x57 sporter for deer and elk...

ligonierbill · December 30, 2017, 09:47 AM

I have not worked with the 7.65 Argentine, or 7x57 for that matter, from the older actions. Maybe I should. I do have a M96 Carl Gustafs, but it is original. Good shooter, by the way. I need to try it in CMP vintage military.

No, the 9.3x62 is no plinker. Yes, if I get the chance, I will hunt moose (and elk) with it. Classic Mauser round.

oldscot3 · December 30, 2017, 10:11 AM

You probably already know, the 7.65 Argentine is essentially Mauser's 30 caliber with performance (when loaded to full potential) just a step off of 30 06 capabilities. 303 bullets aren't really a handicap, just not as popular as 30s so the options are vastly less by comparison.

My '09 was a pig's ear turned into a silk purse with a brand new milsurp replacement barrel and a sporter stock. It is capable of remarkable accuracy with the right loads. If you can find a nice one, you'll probably agree, the '09 Argentine is one of the nicest military mausers any country issued to their troops.

Archie · January 3, 2018, 11:56 PM

The 8x57mm, 7.65x53mm and 7x57mm are all fine cartridges and will do for about anything in North America. All three are in the same category as the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The 8mm and 7.65mm bore perhaps have a bit of an edge in bullet weight, the 7x57mm has an edge in sectional density.

Good all around and no belts.

9.3x62mm is just a bit stouter than .35 Whelen. Excellent round for big game.

agtman · January 4, 2018, 10:30 AM

As winter projects, old Mausers make great base candidates for 'conversion' into Cooper-ish Scout Rifles.

std7mag · January 4, 2018, 05:51 PM

Well, not an old Mauser, but a newer Whitworth.
Took the 270 Win barrel off, screwed on a new E.R. Shaw barrel in 284 Win. Bell & Carlson stock. Need to finish the barrel channel and waiting for the Warne rings to come in, so i can mount up the new Sightron S-TAC 4-20X50.

emcon5 · January 5, 2018, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agtman

As winter projects, old Mausers make great base candidates for 'conversion' into Cooper-ish Scout Rifles.

Collecting parts for one of these, I have a IDF CZ Mauser 98 action, and picked up a short chambered .308 barrel from Brownells

For the short term I plan on getting the barrel cut back to ~18" and having it threaded for a AR type flash hider, and dropping it in a cut down military stock I have lying around.

Still need to figure out sights. Leaning toward this mount, and maybe a Skinner lo-pro for irons.

armoredman · January 6, 2018, 05:02 AM

I have a gunsmith buddy in Arizona who has closets full of Mausers. No joke - seen it. His New Years resolution is to start unloading them. Lots of Yugos in military dress and several sporterized ones - his work is stellar.

hooligan1 · January 6, 2018, 11:50 AM

STD 7MAG, do you want to get rid of that .270 barrel you removed, if so please PM me.

ligonierbill · January 14, 2018, 02:53 PM

I posted some words about the rebarrel in "The Smithy", but that discussion kind of went off the rails. In any case, here are photos of the Radom I just received and the Brazilian receiver.

The Radom was nicer than I expected. The barrel is tapered! It's original - number matches receiver and it's stepped - but someone must have chucked it up in a lathe. The rifle is noticeably light. Too cold to shoot right now, but I have high hopes.

That's a Turkish bolt on the Brazilian, and I too have ordered a Brownell's .308 short chambered barrel (back ordered). I'll keep mine at 24". I decided not to go 9.3x62. I have a new Sauer 100 in that caliber that shoots great. One is enough for now. Shaw will get the Radom for a new 8x57 if she disappoints, but something tells me she won't. Weather should be better mid-week.

oldscot3 · January 14, 2018, 04:25 PM

Nice. ^^^^^

I don't fool with the old mauser projects much anymore, there's not a smith locally I can use. They just don't seem to be interested; for what I can figure they either are busy building high end "safari class" rifles or high end ARs.

I have some left overs that I'd like to get completed, including a czech vz24 with a new, old milsurp replacement 8x57 barrel. All it needs is an .012" setback and shortened. The last smith I took it to wouldn't touch it without having the receiver "tested for strength". I don't know what that might involve but I got the idea he just wanted to get me out of his shop. He accomplished that.

ligonierbill · January 14, 2018, 05:38 PM

I think you're right. Unless it's case hardened, a simple hardness test will tell. Directly related to yield strength. E. R. Shaw would be happy to see your action, I'm sure. They will check it out before they work on it, but for safety, not to chase you off.

oldscot3 · January 15, 2018, 09:50 AM

I could be mistaken, but I thought Shaw's main line of business was to provide and install barrels. I already have a new barrel, it's just a bit too long in the headspace department.

I've located a guy with a lathe that could do the job, but he's really not a gunsmith so I'm reluctant to have him do it. I think .012" is such a small amount though, if I supervised, he could easily remove the excess metal from the two surfaces. Sketchy though, I'd prefer to have an experienced smith do it, even if it cost me a little more.

ligonierbill · January 15, 2018, 01:06 PM

You could give Shaw a call. They price their gunsmithing services separately from their barrels. They do state they will only blue actions they work on, no standalone, but I don't know about installing barrels. BTW, they are also selling a line of rifles now.

I guess finding true gunsmith is just getting harder these days.

oldscot3 · January 15, 2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

I guess finding true gunsmith is just getting harder these days.

Yep, that's my lament exactly. If money is no object and you don't mind spending whatever it takes to get what you want, then you can probably find someone. With old mausers though, you'll likely end up with more money invested than it's worth.

If what you want is something special or unique then it may be worth it, but for me my old mauser will just be a truck gun. If I end up with $400.00 invested then I probably would have been better served to have purchased a Ruger American or a Howa.

armoredman · January 18, 2018, 12:09 AM

oldscot3, too bad you're not local - the guy I mention specializes in Mausers and is a true, old school gunsmith,

oldscot3 · January 18, 2018, 11:12 AM

Yeah, I wish he were here. Be very, very nice to him.

Aside from the vz24 I mentioned above, I have an Argentine 09 calvary barreled action. The bore is toast, the stock was firewood, but other than that the metal is good, all numbers match, etc.

I'd like to do something with it, just not sure what.

ligonierbill · January 30, 2018, 02:45 PM

Brownell's shipped my 308 barrel. It should be here Saturday. So, make sure it fits, polish it (they are not) and get it installed. I'll rent a finish reamer and gauges, get some bluing on the barrel and give her a try. The process worked well on my last one, and I got a good (<1 1/2") group out of that one (6.5x55 Brownell's on an FN receiver) earlier in the week.

The same range session showed me the Radom needs a new tube. No worries, the seller said as much. In this case, though, as I said before, I will send it to Shaw for a new 8x57 barrel. I like the round, kind of grew up with it, but every rifle I've had still had the original military barrel. None shot very good. Well, with one exception. I still have the "family" Danzig sporterized, I think, at Flaig's. It has a Marble front bead and a Redfield aperture, and I used to shoot groundhogs with it. Groups now are only as good as my old eyes.

In any case, I'm getting my money's worth out of the Wheeler barrel vice and action wrench I bought several years ago. And I'm having fun!

Update: Got the barrel off in good order. Standard threads in good shape. Off to Shaw tomorrow.

ligonierbill · February 4, 2018, 01:40 PM

Got my barrel from Brownell's. Installed on the Brazilian with a touch of Oxpho-blue (also Brownells). Ordered up a finish reamer and go/no go gauges. Next up is fitting the new barrel profile to the stock (quite different from the original) and bedding the whole deal. For those interested in such things, the barrel shank is about 1/4 mm (0.01") shorter than the measurement from the front of the receiver to the 'C' ring.

My Radom receiver and bolt will be delivered to Shaw tomorrow. They are quoting 12 weeks, but the last time they worked one for me, they beat their quoted time by a lot.

agtman · February 4, 2018, 05:21 PM

Chop 'em down, then Scout scope 'em.

Transforms an Old Mauser into a new and useful tool. Much better than the commercial offerings too.

Nunya53 · February 6, 2018, 11:41 PM

Good thread...I have a couple of Turkish marked large ring Mauser actions waiting for a good idea. One was a rifle I foolishly started to sporterize before the gunsmith became incapacitated and unable to complete. The other was a potential felony (cut down) we found in my Dad's house after he passed. I have two sons and am thinking about doing a matched pair for them....I'm thinking 25-06, but haven't decided yet. It will be a long term project to say the least....

Jerry

ligonierbill · February 7, 2018, 05:30 AM

Watch the Turks. They're not bad, but they can vary a good bit. I had one with a short shank and an odd thread pitch. Unless you want to modify the bottom metal, you may find 25-06 too long for your mags. The 8x57 max COL is 3.25, and I have not been able to get anything longer than 3.27 - 3.28 to work in a standard mag well.

ligonierbill · February 9, 2018, 04:31 PM

Shaw has my Pole. When I get that one back, I'll report, but it will be months from now. But I can just about wrap up my Brazilian.

I took her to the range today with some Speer 150s and some SGK 165s over Re-15. The Speers did pretty good. At a grain and a half below their max, I shot a 1 1/2" group at 2,850. Not bad, considering these are the first rounds through this barrel. The Sierras were not as good, nothing better than 3". Sierra tested Re-15, but they recommend a notch slower. I'm going to run some Barnes TTSX first.

Now, you won't believe this, but today is the first time I've fired a 308. I load and shoot more than 40 calibers, but never this most common one. Pleasant round to shoot. In any case, this rifle never shot so good. I'm happy, and I expect to improve on that group. And thumbs up for Brownell's bargain barrels. I'm 2 for 2 with them.

December 28, 2017, 10:44 AM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	New Year's Plan - old Mausers My resolution should be, "Quit foolin' with 'em and shoot", but not to be. The '35 Brazilian had a good session before Christmas, but the old girl won't do better than 2", usually 3". She has the original barrel, and I haven't tried to bed the action, but I think it's time for a new barrel. The only question is, 8x57 or 9.3x62? Enter yet another addition to Bill's Home for Aged Mausers, a Polish K29 made in Radom in 1930. Hadn't even heard of these. The model is listed in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, but no further mention is made. I know that after WWI, Poland took over Danzig, now Gdansk, and took the tooling first to Warsaw, then to Radom. I understand that a rifle in original condition from there commands a premium, but mine is "sporterized", stock replaced, original barrel cut down, sights removed and drilled and tapped. When I get it, I will mount a scope and see how it shoots. The seller noted wear on the rifling. We shall see. If it's a good shooter, I will shoot 8x57 from the Pole and rebarrel the Brazilian to 9.3. If not, I guess they both get new tubes, one of each. So much for a sensible New Year. Anyone shooting a Radom Mauser?

December 30, 2017, 07:57 AM	#3
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Let me see here, 1. Turk m38, 6.506 2. Turk m38, 6.5 Creedmoor 3. Turk m38 full military config. with bayonet. 4. 1891 Argentine, custom but original barrel with stock cut down. 5. 1895 Chilean, 7x57 mauser full military with bayonet 6. 1908 Brazilian, (all parts matching) 7x57 7. Mark X Zastava, commercial rifle .270 winchester. 8. Mark X Zastava, commercial rifle .243 winchester. About sums up my cache of Mauser actions, except a 1903 Turk, (action only) that hasnt arrived to my ffl at this writing, will be a 7x57 sporter for deer and elk... __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

January 3, 2018, 11:56 PM	#6
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	The 8x57mm, 7.65x53mm and 7x57mm are all fine cartridges and will do for about anything in North America. All three are in the same category as the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The 8mm and 7.65mm bore perhaps have a bit of an edge in bullet weight, the 7x57mm has an edge in sectional density. Good all around and no belts. 9.3x62mm is just a bit stouter than .35 Whelen. Excellent round for big game. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

January 6, 2018, 11:50 AM	#11
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	STD 7MAG, do you want to get rid of that .270 barrel you removed, if so please PM me. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

January 30, 2018, 02:45 PM	#20
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	Update Brownell's shipped my 308 barrel. It should be here Saturday. So, make sure it fits, polish it (they are not) and get it installed. I'll rent a finish reamer and gauges, get some bluing on the barrel and give her a try. The process worked well on my last one, and I got a good (<1 1/2") group out of that one (6.5x55 Brownell's on an FN receiver) earlier in the week. The same range session showed me the Radom needs a new tube. No worries, the seller said as much. In this case, though, as I said before, I will send it to Shaw for a new 8x57 barrel. I like the round, kind of grew up with it, but every rifle I've had still had the original military barrel. None shot very good. Well, with one exception. I still have the "family" Danzig sporterized, I think, at Flaig's. It has a Marble front bead and a Redfield aperture, and I used to shoot groundhogs with it. Groups now are only as good as my old eyes. In any case, I'm getting my money's worth out of the Wheeler barrel vice and action wrench I bought several years ago. And I'm having fun! Update: Got the barrel off in good order. Standard threads in good shape. Off to Shaw tomorrow. Last edited by ligonierbill; January 31, 2018 at 04:09 PM.

December 28, 2017, 06:56 PM	#2
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	No Polish mausers but I have a couple Persians and a couple Argentines. I'm a fan of 8x57 and 7.65 Argentine but one of my '09 Argentines has been rebarrelled to 7 x57 and it's nice too. I've been intrigued by 9.3 x 62 but I can't figure it for a plinker. Do you plan on hunting moose?

December 30, 2017, 09:47 AM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	I have not worked with the 7.65 Argentine, or 7x57 for that matter, from the older actions. Maybe I should. I do have a M96 Carl Gustafs, but it is original. Good shooter, by the way. I need to try it in CMP vintage military. No, the 9.3x62 is no plinker. Yes, if I get the chance, I will hunt moose (and elk) with it. Classic Mauser round.

December 30, 2017, 10:11 AM	#5
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	You probably already know, the 7.65 Argentine is essentially Mauser's 30 caliber with performance (when loaded to full potential) just a step off of 30 06 capabilities. 303 bullets aren't really a handicap, just not as popular as 30s so the options are vastly less by comparison. My '09 was a pig's ear turned into a silk purse with a brand new milsurp replacement barrel and a sporter stock. It is capable of remarkable accuracy with the right loads. If you can find a nice one, you'll probably agree, the '09 Argentine is one of the nicest military mausers any country issued to their troops.

January 4, 2018, 10:30 AM	#7
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	As winter projects, old Mausers make great base candidates for 'conversion' into Cooper-ish Scout Rifles.

January 4, 2018, 05:51 PM	#8
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Well, not an old Mauser, but a newer Whitworth. Took the 270 Win barrel off, screwed on a new E.R. Shaw barrel in 284 Win. Bell & Carlson stock. Need to finish the barrel channel and waiting for the Warne rings to come in, so i can mount up the new Sightron S-TAC 4-20X50.

January 6, 2018, 05:02 AM	#10
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	I have a gunsmith buddy in Arizona who has closets full of Mausers. No joke - seen it. His New Years resolution is to start unloading them. Lots of Yugos in military dress and several sporterized ones - his work is stellar.

January 14, 2018, 04:25 PM	#13
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	Nice. ^^^^^ I don't fool with the old mauser projects much anymore, there's not a smith locally I can use. They just don't seem to be interested; for what I can figure they either are busy building high end "safari class" rifles or high end ARs. I have some left overs that I'd like to get completed, including a czech vz24 with a new, old milsurp replacement 8x57 barrel. All it needs is an .012" setback and shortened. The last smith I took it to wouldn't touch it without having the receiver "tested for strength". I don't know what that might involve but I got the idea he just wanted to get me out of his shop. He accomplished that.

January 14, 2018, 05:38 PM	#14
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	I think you're right. Unless it's case hardened, a simple hardness test will tell. Directly related to yield strength. E. R. Shaw would be happy to see your action, I'm sure. They will check it out before they work on it, but for safety, not to chase you off.

January 15, 2018, 09:50 AM	#15
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	I could be mistaken, but I thought Shaw's main line of business was to provide and install barrels. I already have a new barrel, it's just a bit too long in the headspace department. I've located a guy with a lathe that could do the job, but he's really not a gunsmith so I'm reluctant to have him do it. I think .012" is such a small amount though, if I supervised, he could easily remove the excess metal from the two surfaces. Sketchy though, I'd prefer to have an experienced smith do it, even if it cost me a little more.

January 15, 2018, 01:06 PM	#16
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	You could give Shaw a call. They price their gunsmithing services separately from their barrels. They do state they will only blue actions they work on, no standalone, but I don't know about installing barrels. BTW, they are also selling a line of rifles now. I guess finding true gunsmith is just getting harder these days.

January 18, 2018, 12:09 AM	#18
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	oldscot3, too bad you're not local - the guy I mention specializes in Mausers and is a true, old school gunsmith,

January 18, 2018, 11:12 AM	#19
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	Yeah, I wish he were here. Be very, very nice to him. Aside from the vz24 I mentioned above, I have an Argentine 09 calvary barreled action. The bore is toast, the stock was firewood, but other than that the metal is good, all numbers match, etc. I'd like to do something with it, just not sure what.

February 4, 2018, 05:21 PM	#22
agtman Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 2,374	Chop 'em down, then Scout scope 'em. Transforms an Old Mauser into a new and useful tool. Much better than the commercial offerings too.

February 6, 2018, 11:41 PM	#23
Nunya53 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2006 Location: Sherwood, AR Posts: 207	Good thread...I have a couple of Turkish marked large ring Mauser actions waiting for a good idea. One was a rifle I foolishly started to sporterize before the gunsmith became incapacitated and unable to complete. The other was a potential felony (cut down) we found in my Dad's house after he passed. I have two sons and am thinking about doing a matched pair for them....I'm thinking 25-06, but haven't decided yet. It will be a long term project to say the least.... Jerry

February 7, 2018, 05:30 AM	#24
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	Watch the Turks. They're not bad, but they can vary a good bit. I had one with a short shank and an odd thread pitch. Unless you want to modify the bottom metal, you may find 25-06 too long for your mags. The 8x57 max COL is 3.25, and I have not been able to get anything longer than 3.27 - 3.28 to work in a standard mag well.

February 9, 2018, 04:31 PM	#25
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,454	Closure (mostly) Shaw has my Pole. When I get that one back, I'll report, but it will be months from now. But I can just about wrap up my Brazilian. I took her to the range today with some Speer 150s and some SGK 165s over Re-15. The Speers did pretty good. At a grain and a half below their max, I shot a 1 1/2" group at 2,850. Not bad, considering these are the first rounds through this barrel. The Sierras were not as good, nothing better than 3". Sierra tested Re-15, but they recommend a notch slower. I'm going to run some Barnes TTSX first. Now, you won't believe this, but today is the first time I've fired a 308. I load and shoot more than 40 calibers, but never this most common one. Pleasant round to shoot. In any case, this rifle never shot so good. I'm happy, and I expect to improve on that group. And thumbs up for Brownell's bargain barrels. I'm 2 for 2 with them.