Clays/45 ACP

tim s · March 10, 2011, 10:10 AM

Anybody care to share any pros or cons using Clays and mostly 185/200 grain LSWC light Bullseye type loads?

mikejonestkd · March 10, 2011, 10:33 AM

A friend uses clays with 200 gr scw cast bullets and a 8 pound spring in a 1911. He claims great accuracy, mild report and clean burning. I personally use Bullseye or 231 for my light loads, and have good results too.

Rifletom · March 10, 2011, 10:34 AM

Was shooting next to a guy this past weekend with the same load[200gr swc] and Clays. His load was 4.3 Clays. This guy was ACCURATE!
His distance was 15 and 25 yards. Pistol: 1911 Springfield.

AlaskaMike · March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM

My light load is also 4.3 grains of Clays with a 200 grain H&G 68 style SWC. It reliably cycles my Springfield 1911 (w/ 18 lb. spring) and my Sig P220. It is a very nice load, and is very accurate in both my .45s. I think it's pretty close to max though, without going into +P territory.

It is definitely a clean load--I can shoot hundreds and have very little powder residue caked up in the gun. I used to shoot the same bullets, with the same bullet lube using 231, and had much, much more powder residue to clean up at the end of a range day.

DogoDon · March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM

I shoot 200gr LSWC over Clays loads from my .45acp SA Mil-Spec. I've tried everything from about 3.5 grains up to about 4.5 grains (Hodgdon's load data lists 3.6 to 4.3 grains). I have found light Clays loads to be clean burning and pretty accurate. Recoil is very mild, but even the lightest loads I have tried cycle my Mil-Spec (stock recoil spring) just fine. It's a nice powder for soft-shooting .45acp loads.

The only negative with Clays IMO is that you can't make a really hot load. The Hodgdon data show for 200gr LSWC even at max load of 4.3 grains it gave a muzzle velocity of 888 fps, the second-lowest of all Hodgdon powders for that bullet. But since you are looking for a light load, Clays is a very good choice.

DD

reloader28 · March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM

I use 4gr Clays with 200gr SWC and 230gr RN.
4.5gr Bullseye with these 2 boolits

They all shoot good from several 45's.

tim s · March 10, 2011, 12:10 PM

Thanks guys, I knew about the max velocity stuff but this is really for loght loads. I've been using Bullseye and some N310 which is great but expensive. I got a deal on a 4 lb'er of the clays so I figure @3.5-4gr it's gonna last a loooong time.

TheGreatDane · March 10, 2011, 12:14 PM

4.3 Clays behind a Lee 200gn Cast SWC is very accurate; however, it has shown some high Extreme Spreads over the chronograph (some where around 120fps diff between high and low).

The recoil is soft and powder fowling is very little.

It used to be my go-to powder for USPSA; however, I've sinced switched to 4.9gn Titegroup. Clays showed to be too inconsistent. Because of it's inconsistency, I had difficulty achieving an honest power factor with the 4.5in barrel.

Titegroup achieves power factor with room to spare (away from max pressure), my observed extreme spread is very low, and with 4.9 - it's still economical.

Rifletom · March 10, 2011, 12:15 PM

When I was shooting this past weekend, my load was 6.0gr Unique under a Speer LRN. Accurate enough, but pretty sooty. Can someone suggest a comparable powder that is cleaner? BTW, pistol is a Springfield 1911 mil-spec.

mikejonestkd · March 10, 2011, 02:40 PM

I like 3.4 grains of bullseye under a 200 gr SWC loaded to 1.220" and 4.0 grains of W 231 under the same bullet and same length. They cycle well in an 8 - 10 pound spring range but tend to be too light for a standard 16 pound spring. My friend does very well with 4.0 gr of clays with a 200 gr SWC and a light spring. Its his target load and he does very well with it, but I have had mixed results in my 1911s with it. Perhaps the velocity spreads that great dane mentioned are an issue.

My only issue with Bullseye is that it is filthy, so I use 231 more often lately.

noylj · March 10, 2011, 05:12 PM

I find that Clays works in my .45s only at very low charge weights. The following are the only accurate loads I have found with Clays or TiteGroup. These loads were not accurate with Penn, National Bullet, or Precision Bullet 200gn L-SWCs.

Bullet Designation Nominal Bullet Weight Actual Bullet Weight Bullet Type Powder Powder Weight Primer COL Gun Accuracy
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC 231/HP38 4.1 1.2387 Clark Gold Cup 2.125
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC 231/HP38 4.1 1.2387 Clark Gold Cup 2.125
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC AA2 4.0 Clark Gold Cup 1.188
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC AA2 4.0 Clark Gold Cup 2.750
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC Clays 3.7 1.2330 Clark Gold Cup 1.188
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC Clays 3.7 1.2309 Clark Gold Cup 1.813
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC TiteGroup 4.5 1.2383 Clark Gold Cup 1.313
MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC TiteGroup 4.5 1.2383 Clark Gold Cup 1.625

g.willikers · March 10, 2011, 05:58 PM

I like Clays for it's clean burning and had the same results as TheGreatDane.
Although the velocity spreads, out of a 5" barrel, weren't as severe, more like 820 - 860 f/s with 4.3 grains and a 200 grain SWC.
Only important for competition when the ammo is chronographed for major scoring.
It didn't seem to affect point of aim.
Otherwise it's a good choice and a favorite.

dwhite · March 10, 2011, 06:20 PM

rifletom,

Universal is very similar to Unique but it burns a LOT cleaner.
Give it a try.

All the Best,
D. White

Rifletom · March 10, 2011, 08:29 PM

dwhite, thanks, much appreciated. Thats where I was leaning; it sounds like a very good powder. Thanks again.

BombthePeasants · March 10, 2011, 10:57 PM

I too, use Clays w/ the 200gr LSWC. I use 3.9gr, w/ a COL of 1.230"

It is the cleanest burning powder I have used, and it is my sole pistol powder. I shoot the 1911 Loaded from Springfield Armory.

March 10, 2011, 10:10 AM	#1
tim s Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 223	Clays/45 ACP Anybody care to share any pros or cons using Clays and mostly 185/200 grain LSWC light Bullseye type loads?

March 10, 2011, 10:33 AM	#2
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	A friend uses clays with 200 gr scw cast bullets and a 8 pound spring in a 1911. He claims great accuracy, mild report and clean burning. I personally use Bullseye or 231 for my light loads, and have good results too. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

March 10, 2011, 02:40 PM	#10
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	I like 3.4 grains of bullseye under a 200 gr SWC loaded to 1.220" and 4.0 grains of W 231 under the same bullet and same length. They cycle well in an 8 - 10 pound spring range but tend to be too light for a standard 16 pound spring. My friend does very well with 4.0 gr of clays with a 200 gr SWC and a light spring. Its his target load and he does very well with it, but I have had mixed results in my 1911s with it. Perhaps the velocity spreads that great dane mentioned are an issue. My only issue with Bullseye is that it is filthy, so I use 231 more often lately. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

March 10, 2011, 05:58 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	I like Clays for it's clean burning and had the same results as TheGreatDane. Although the velocity spreads, out of a 5" barrel, weren't as severe, more like 820 - 860 f/s with 4.3 grains and a 200 grain SWC. Only important for competition when the ammo is chronographed for major scoring. It didn't seem to affect point of aim. Otherwise it's a good choice and a favorite. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

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March 10, 2011, 10:34 AM	#3
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	Was shooting next to a guy this past weekend with the same load[200gr swc] and Clays. His load was 4.3 Clays. This guy was ACCURATE! His distance was 15 and 25 yards. Pistol: 1911 Springfield.

March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM	#4
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	My light load is also 4.3 grains of Clays with a 200 grain H&G 68 style SWC. It reliably cycles my Springfield 1911 (w/ 18 lb. spring) and my Sig P220. It is a very nice load, and is very accurate in both my .45s. I think it's pretty close to max though, without going into +P territory. It is definitely a clean load--I can shoot hundreds and have very little powder residue caked up in the gun. I used to shoot the same bullets, with the same bullet lube using 231, and had much, much more powder residue to clean up at the end of a range day.

March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM	#5
DogoDon Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 368	I shoot 200gr LSWC over Clays loads from my .45acp SA Mil-Spec. I've tried everything from about 3.5 grains up to about 4.5 grains (Hodgdon's load data lists 3.6 to 4.3 grains). I have found light Clays loads to be clean burning and pretty accurate. Recoil is very mild, but even the lightest loads I have tried cycle my Mil-Spec (stock recoil spring) just fine. It's a nice powder for soft-shooting .45acp loads. The only negative with Clays IMO is that you can't make a really hot load. The Hodgdon data show for 200gr LSWC even at max load of 4.3 grains it gave a muzzle velocity of 888 fps, the second-lowest of all Hodgdon powders for that bullet. But since you are looking for a light load, Clays is a very good choice. DD

March 10, 2011, 11:36 AM	#6
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I use 4gr Clays with 200gr SWC and 230gr RN. 4.5gr Bullseye with these 2 boolits They all shoot good from several 45's.

March 10, 2011, 12:10 PM	#7
tim s Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 223	Thanks guys, I knew about the max velocity stuff but this is really for loght loads. I've been using Bullseye and some N310 which is great but expensive. I got a deal on a 4 lb'er of the clays so I figure @3.5-4gr it's gonna last a loooong time.

March 10, 2011, 12:14 PM	#8
TheGreatDane Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Posts: 29	4.3 Clays behind a Lee 200gn Cast SWC is very accurate; however, it has shown some high Extreme Spreads over the chronograph (some where around 120fps diff between high and low). The recoil is soft and powder fowling is very little. It used to be my go-to powder for USPSA; however, I've sinced switched to 4.9gn Titegroup. Clays showed to be too inconsistent. Because of it's inconsistency, I had difficulty achieving an honest power factor with the 4.5in barrel. Titegroup achieves power factor with room to spare (away from max pressure), my observed extreme spread is very low, and with 4.9 - it's still economical.

March 10, 2011, 12:15 PM	#9
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	When I was shooting this past weekend, my load was 6.0gr Unique under a Speer LRN. Accurate enough, but pretty sooty. Can someone suggest a comparable powder that is cleaner? BTW, pistol is a Springfield 1911 mil-spec.

March 10, 2011, 05:12 PM	#11
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	I find that Clays works in my .45s only at very low charge weights. The following are the only accurate loads I have found with Clays or TiteGroup. These loads were not accurate with Penn, National Bullet, or Precision Bullet 200gn L-SWCs. Bullet Designation Nominal Bullet Weight Actual Bullet Weight Bullet Type Powder Powder Weight Primer COL Gun Accuracy MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC 231/HP38 4.1 1.2387 Clark Gold Cup 2.125 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC 231/HP38 4.1 1.2387 Clark Gold Cup 2.125 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC AA2 4.0 Clark Gold Cup 1.188 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC AA2 4.0 Clark Gold Cup 2.750 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC Clays 3.7 1.2330 Clark Gold Cup 1.188 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC Clays 3.7 1.2309 Clark Gold Cup 1.813 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC TiteGroup 4.5 1.2383 Clark Gold Cup 1.313 MasterCastBullet 200 205.7 H&G 68 L-SWC TiteGroup 4.5 1.2383 Clark Gold Cup 1.625

March 10, 2011, 06:20 PM	#13
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	rifletom, Universal is very similar to Unique but it burns a LOT cleaner. Give it a try. All the Best, D. White

March 10, 2011, 08:29 PM	#14
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	dwhite, thanks, much appreciated. Thats where I was leaning; it sounds like a very good powder. Thanks again.

March 10, 2011, 10:57 PM	#15
BombthePeasants Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 351	I too, use Clays w/ the 200gr LSWC. I use 3.9gr, w/ a COL of 1.230" It is the cleanest burning powder I have used, and it is my sole pistol powder. I shoot the 1911 Loaded from Springfield Armory.