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February 8, 2020, 04:04 PM | #26 |
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I like the push feed model better. Control feed being more reliable is a myth that has been repeatedly debunked.
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February 9, 2020, 02:59 AM | #27 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! Last edited by stagpanther; February 9, 2020 at 03:07 AM. |
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February 9, 2020, 03:05 PM | #28 |
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I went out and tried the factory weatherby stuff--which generally shoots very well and consistently in the other weatherby rifles I've shot it through. Temperature was around 20, but after a couple of groups that flew really wide I decided to put the cartridges in my pocket and shoot them pretty fast. This group was the best I could do--but I wouldn't represent it as "typical all-day long" It's average velocity was 200 fps slower than what weatherby lists on their box, though the SD was a very acceptable 11 fps (out of 8 shots recorded). This group took everything I had to steady on the rests, and obviously will not be a reliable indicator of what to expect shooting while hunting. The barrel is free-floated, but I'm not convinced that's such a great idea with this particular cartridge and a fairly slim sporter profile barrel. I'm sure there's a very good reason Weatherby chooses to put a pressure point on the larger magnum sporter barrels, I'm guessing it has to do with timing and barrel "whiplash"--but that's a bit above my pay grade and would certainly welcome commentary by Bart and/or unclenick on that. In any event, I'm going to tell the owner's daughter we need to go out and do a session together to get this rifle tuned to her shooting style. The trijicon scope generally shoots well, but I found shooting into the sun--hard with any optic--was especially bad with it.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 9, 2020, 03:38 PM | #29 |
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Yup! That's minute of barn door accuracy right thar!!!
My advise.... Take a piece of cardboard, and wedge between the barrel and forestock. You can play with position and how thick. Then mark forestock ( NO, NOT a permenant Sharpie!!) and lay in some fibreglass matting (YES, with the resin) for your pressure point. Ruger 77 has pressure point in their forestock. Removing it voids any accuracy warranty.
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February 9, 2020, 05:11 PM | #30 |
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Thanks for the suggestion--I thought about that but I need to clear with her daddy first.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 9, 2020, 05:22 PM | #31 |
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That sounded so wrong!!!
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When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope... |
February 9, 2020, 05:29 PM | #32 |
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you are a bad boy...no soup for you!
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 9, 2020, 08:34 PM | #33 |
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After doing that, will the pressure on the barrel always be the same regardless of how the rifle's held when fired?
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February 9, 2020, 08:45 PM | #34 | |
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On a different note, the chamber throat/freebore must be amazingly long (or perhaps worn)--using a modified gage I couldn't get a 129 gr LRX to engage the lands without falling out of the case mouth.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! Last edited by stagpanther; February 10, 2020 at 02:04 PM. |
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February 9, 2020, 10:29 PM | #35 | |
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As the stock also vibrates, if it's resting on anything hard it'll bounce off it. Amount varies with how hard it is. https://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm Last edited by Bart B.; February 9, 2020 at 10:45 PM. |
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February 10, 2020, 12:16 AM | #36 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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February 10, 2020, 08:33 AM | #37 | |
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That's the standard procedure for match winning record setting bolt action target rifles. Last edited by Bart B.; February 10, 2020 at 08:48 AM. |
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February 10, 2020, 09:06 AM | #38 | |
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Remington's 700 and 40X were problems with broken extractors and feeding rounds from magazines. These box magazine actions are less than half as stiff as the Winchester 70 ones. Last edited by Bart B.; February 10, 2020 at 09:21 AM. |
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February 10, 2020, 10:47 AM | #39 |
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Ok, 2 things...
First, the Weatherby Magnums use lots of freebore. To get speed, you need pressure. And Weatherbys are all about speed. If the bullet is contacting the lands, you can get quite a pressure spike. Sudden raises in pressure (spike) are not desirable. And if bad enough can be flat out dangerous. Weatherby combats the pressure spike by giving the bullet a good jump. (this is a lesson learned from single shot, lever, and auto/semi auto firearms). While this helps keep spikes in check, when making the cartridge, you want as little bullet runnout as possible. Theory, the straighter the bullet when it contacts the rifling, the straighter it comes out of the muzzle. Second, With changing shooting rests, comes changing pressure on the forestock. (as long as it's rested on the forestock and not the barrel, i see it all too often!) With a raised pressure point, it won't matter where the pressure is applied from a rest, it will still transfer to that raised pressure point between the stock and barrel. Another option would be to full length bed, ala Melvin Forbes with his Forbes, and now New Ultra Light Arms. Doing this gives zero flex on the stock, although the stock needs to be fairly stiff to begin with. And i'd use Devcon for this, not Acraglass.
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When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope... |
February 10, 2020, 11:05 AM | #40 | |
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Note the force on the barrel at that point will vary which changes the spread of line of fire to the line of sight. Note the recoil axis (the bore axis) on those Forbes rifles is above the butt plate and the rifle's center of mass. That'll bend and flex the stock from recoil during barrel time. Exactly like all conventional stock shapes. It also makes the barrel bend during barrel time. Melvin Forbes is either ignorant or false advertising. Last edited by Bart B.; February 10, 2020 at 12:28 PM. |
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February 10, 2020, 12:11 PM | #41 |
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Thanks for the thoughtful advice. There's yet another factor in the equation--this rifle is also an heirloom legacy gun so I might be limited in what I can modify taking it out of original configuration. I think I need to get my ducks in a row and make a "choices" presentation.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 10, 2020, 03:09 PM | #42 |
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I recommend trying 150 grain bullets, especially the Nosler Partition, before making alterations to the rifle. How small does a five shot group have to be before the owner is satisfied? It's a hunting rifle....and a very nice one at that.
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February 10, 2020, 03:28 PM | #43 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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February 10, 2020, 04:34 PM | #44 | ||
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Last edited by Bart B.; February 10, 2020 at 05:02 PM. |
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February 10, 2020, 07:14 PM | #45 |
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That's some cool trivia Bart--thanks for that. At the end of the day, my feeling is that Roy was first and foremost a hunter's rifle maker. I've come to the conclusion his design philosophy was to make a cartridge that was able to deliver to the hunter the longest, flattest "point blank" range possible--in other words giving average hunters the capability of a high probability of a clean kill out to 400 yds +/- with as little fuss or worry about adjusting elevation/windage as possible.That's just my impression after shooting them, never seen that in writing anywhere.
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February 10, 2020, 08:02 PM | #46 |
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Most of the Push Feed model 70's are very much under rated and under valued. Especially those made in the 1980's and 1990's. The quality could be a bit spotty during the 60s' and 70's, but that looks like an 80's rifle. Winchester brought back CRF in 1992 with their Classic rifles but kept making the PF versions as their budget guns until going under in 2006. When FN brought the model 70 back in 2008 they discontinued the PF rifles.
You can often find them at very good prices. I've had a few over the years and liked them better than Remington. The advantages of CRF are often misunderstood. The word "FEED" in the phrase makes people think they FEED more reliably. Not so. There is no difference in the reliability of FEEDING between CRF and PF. And under "normal" hunting conditions with a reasonably clean rifle there is no advantage whatsoever. CRF's biggest advantage is more a more rugged, simple, fool proof ejection and extraction system. If you're hunting in icy, cold, snowy, muddy, or dusty conditions where the rifle has a good chance of getting filthy they are more likely to extract and eject where a PF could fail. And on all pre 2008 Winchesters, even the PF rifles, they used one of the most rugged, reliable triggers ever devised. It isn't easy to adjust for the best trigger pull, but is as reliable as ever made. I have both PF and CRF rifles and most of the time don't have a preference. But when I'm hunting at 11,000' in single digit temps in snow miles from the road that advantage might make a difference.
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February 11, 2020, 10:03 AM | #47 |
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Next up is a 416 Weatherby magnum--now that is going to be an experience I'm sure I won't forget. I've got some hard-hitters in recoil, but nothing even close to this.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 11, 2020, 03:48 PM | #48 |
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If it has a break on it, it won't be so bad.
If not, shoot with your mouth closed so you won't swallow any fillings from your teeth. |
February 11, 2020, 04:01 PM | #49 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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February 14, 2020, 07:52 PM | #50 |
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Back on subject--I want to shoot some handloads tomorrow for the model 70--but it's headed to 22 below zero tonight in parts of Maine.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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