Old time false muzzle question.

Lavan · February 4, 2018, 12:53 PM

When they shot muzzle loaders for serious competition, most used false muzzles for loading.

I read that the false muzzle had to be matched to the rifling of the gun.

Did they saw off a piece of barrel? Doubt it.

Or did they fit the false muzzle to an unbored barrel and ..then..rifle both together?

HiBC · February 4, 2018, 01:17 PM

Yes. (The second guess)

See if you can find a copy of Ned Roberts "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle"

Hawg · February 4, 2018, 01:33 PM

It was cut off the barrel after rifling.

Oliver Sudden · February 4, 2018, 01:43 PM

The barrel was bored then a section was cut off and faced off to which pins were fitted to rejoin the it to the barrel. The reaming and rifling could then be done so they are a continuous smooth transition from false muzzle to bore. The false muzzle is opened up at the front to allow the bullet to be inserted with out damage.

HiBC · February 4, 2018, 02:35 PM

Correct.

Jim Watson · February 4, 2018, 03:09 PM

The best false muzzles were done as Oliver describes.

However, I once saw a procedure for making a false muzzle out of a rifled barrel blank. It had calculations to determine how far to turn the false muzzle to allow for the kerf of the cutoff tool and realign the rifling. About the only way, if you have to start with a barrel blank.

Hawg · February 4, 2018, 05:09 PM

I stand umm sit corrected.

Lavan · February 5, 2018, 07:44 AM

Doing together makes sense. I just wanted to check.
Thanks.

swathdiver · February 7, 2018, 09:59 PM

Excellent recommendation for that book! It's a great read and have reread it many times.

Model12Win · February 8, 2018, 04:50 AM

Yes that is the best book yet written on the percussion rifles, with lots of info applicable to the flints too, especially their construction. That book is one of the main reasons I'm a cap lock lover and am interested in 19th and early 20th century usage of them.

**4V50 Gary** · February 8, 2018, 11:12 AM

Decades ago when I first read the book, I thought ho-hum. Then I couldn't put it down. It is easily the most important work on the subject. It's a masterful blend of history and technology.

denster · February 8, 2018, 11:50 AM

Fitting the false muzzle to the unrifled barrel and doing them together was the accepted method of doing it.
I have done it to all ready rifled barrels by cutting of a section of barrel and turning it round and facing it and the barrel. Next step is casting a cerrosafe slug in the bore and pushing it out the length of the false muzzle and sliding the muzzle to be down the slug till it bottoms on the face of the barrel. Clamp both together and drill for the locator pins. Worked pretty well and pushing a patched bullet through and out the breech showed no deformation from the transition.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · February 9, 2018, 11:52 AM

I've only seen one rifle having a false muzzle. And it was a picture of one on some other web site. At the time it wasn't explained why or for what purpose? I always thought it was done to eliminate some sort of wear incurred along the edge of a muzzle's entrance due to the antiquated softer steel they had back in the day. As I recall the false muzzle did indeed have locator pins. Although I can't remember how many small holes were purposely drilled into the barrels end face?
Gee that was quite some time ago I seen those pictures. i.e. better than a decade ago I do believe.

Jim Watson · February 9, 2018, 12:25 PM

Usually four locator pins, NOT evenly spaced so as to be sure the right grooves lined up.

Most, not all, had a post to block the sights when the false muzzle was in place. Those that didn't got launched down the range every once in a while. Some shooters tied their false muzzle to the bench, just in case.

Hawg · February 9, 2018, 02:43 PM

February 4, 2018, 12:53 PM	#1
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Old time false muzzle question. When they shot muzzle loaders for serious competition, most used false muzzles for loading. I read that the false muzzle had to be matched to the rifling of the gun. Did they saw off a piece of barrel? Doubt it. Or did they fit the false muzzle to an unbored barrel and ..then..rifle both together?

February 7, 2018, 09:59 PM	#9
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Excellent recommendation for that book! It's a great read and have reread it many times. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

February 8, 2018, 11:12 AM	#11
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Decades ago when I first read the book, I thought ho-hum. Then I couldn't put it down. It is easily the most important work on the subject. It's a masterful blend of history and technology. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 4, 2018, 01:17 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Yes. (The second guess) See if you can find a copy of Ned Roberts "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle"

February 4, 2018, 01:33 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It was cut off the barrel after rifling.

February 4, 2018, 01:43 PM	#4
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	The barrel was bored then a section was cut off and faced off to which pins were fitted to rejoin the it to the barrel. The reaming and rifling could then be done so they are a continuous smooth transition from false muzzle to bore. The false muzzle is opened up at the front to allow the bullet to be inserted with out damage.

February 4, 2018, 02:35 PM	#5
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Correct.

February 4, 2018, 03:09 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The best false muzzles were done as Oliver describes. However, I once saw a procedure for making a false muzzle out of a rifled barrel blank. It had calculations to determine how far to turn the false muzzle to allow for the kerf of the cutoff tool and realign the rifling. About the only way, if you have to start with a barrel blank.

February 4, 2018, 05:09 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I stand umm sit corrected.

February 5, 2018, 07:44 AM	#8
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Doing together makes sense. I just wanted to check. Thanks.

February 8, 2018, 04:50 AM	#10
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Yes that is the best book yet written on the percussion rifles, with lots of info applicable to the flints too, especially their construction. That book is one of the main reasons I'm a cap lock lover and am interested in 19th and early 20th century usage of them.

February 8, 2018, 11:50 AM	#12
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Fitting the false muzzle to the unrifled barrel and doing them together was the accepted method of doing it. I have done it to all ready rifled barrels by cutting of a section of barrel and turning it round and facing it and the barrel. Next step is casting a cerrosafe slug in the bore and pushing it out the length of the false muzzle and sliding the muzzle to be down the slug till it bottoms on the face of the barrel. Clamp both together and drill for the locator pins. Worked pretty well and pushing a patched bullet through and out the breech showed no deformation from the transition.

February 9, 2018, 11:52 AM	#13
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	I've only seen one rifle having a false muzzle. And it was a picture of one on some other web site. At the time it wasn't explained why or for what purpose? I always thought it was done to eliminate some sort of wear incurred along the edge of a muzzle's entrance due to the antiquated softer steel they had back in the day. As I recall the false muzzle did indeed have locator pins. Although I can't remember how many small holes were purposely drilled into the barrels end face? Gee that was quite some time ago I seen those pictures. i.e. better than a decade ago I do believe.

February 9, 2018, 12:25 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Usually four locator pins, NOT evenly spaced so as to be sure the right grooves lined up. Most, not all, had a post to block the sights when the false muzzle was in place. Those that didn't got launched down the range every once in a while. Some shooters tied their false muzzle to the bench, just in case.

February 9, 2018, 02:43 PM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189