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Old February 21, 2020, 11:51 AM   #1
Btk253
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Need HELP deciding between 3 shotguns

Hey everyone, 

I am looking for my ideal self/home-defense shotgun within my budget. I would appreciate your help and support in deceiding on the best one, based on your experience, knowledge, or second-hand experience. 

I have narrowed the options down to three guns:

1. Mossberg 500 ATI
2. Mossberg 590A1‐(not sure which variant, suggestions?)
3. Keltec KS7

So of these three, is there an obvious winner? Does it come down to personal preference? Any and all info about all 3 guns (pros and cons) would be most appreciated!

Thanks,

Brian K

Last edited by Btk253; February 21, 2020 at 01:31 PM.
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Old February 22, 2020, 05:31 PM   #2
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A Mossberg 500 will do all you need 18 inch barrel # 5 shot .
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Old February 22, 2020, 07:41 PM   #3
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Would love to know the thought process that got you down to these three.
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Old February 22, 2020, 10:40 PM   #4
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I chose an 18.5" 590A1 with ghost ring sights (but do have a few other shotguns besides this one).
https://www.mossberg.com/product/590a1-m-lok-50765/

If you want something a bit more in price and a Class III waiting period (maybe 50 weeks), Mossberg also has its 14" 590A1, which is pretty nice.
https://www.mossberg.com/product/590...-6-shot-51689/

I've no experience with the other two shotguns in the OP's list.
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Old February 23, 2020, 02:14 PM   #5
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Pump guns tend to be 100% reliable vs a semi-auto that can be ammo particular. Use #2 shot though. 5 is too small.
You can go with a Maverick Model 88 too. It and the M500 are identical.
If you go with the 'ATI', keep in mind that 6.75 pound shotguns with any 12 gauge ammo will be decidedly unpleasant to shoot. A 12 gauge using 2.75" ammo with 1 1/8 oz. shot, at 1200 FPS, out of a 7.5 pound shotgun, has 23.0 ft-lbs of recoil energy.
And you must practice regularly with the ammo you intend using.
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Old February 23, 2020, 03:06 PM   #6
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Thank you all, I appreciate all the information greatly. So does no one have any opinions on the keltec ks7?
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Old February 23, 2020, 08:37 PM   #7
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Mossberg 590 if you have the extra change for the extra bells and whistles. 500 if you just need a plain Jane. The 88 if you want to save a few bucks. Regarding the Maverick, while a Mossberg for all intent and purpose, it is a little lighter and hence has a slightly stiffer kick.
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Old February 24, 2020, 05:44 AM   #8
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Mossberg 500 all day long. Although a 590 could be nice but really the same with a few new options.
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Old February 24, 2020, 08:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
So does no one have any opinions on the keltec ks7
Like the looks of it, but never shot one, so no opinion.

I have several, Benelli Nova, Rem 870, Ithaca M37, FNH P12 and a few others. My favorite is the P12 and that is the one I have with slugs and a WML on it. It is expensive, but I really prefer the chrome lined barrel and rotating bolt. It's sister shotgun, the Winchester SXP is another option. Several of my LE friends have them, even though they hardly ever shoot them. Loaded with slugs for armor, engine blocks, etc.
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Old February 24, 2020, 12:02 PM   #10
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Btk253 Really it is hard to beat the Mossberg 500 low cost and simple to use .
Most if not all home-defense shotguns sit in a corner for years until you need it .
No reason to spend a bunch of money and no one needs to see it just you and maybe the wife . When you buy one you will take it out and shoot it after that it will sit until you need it . As for ammo if you ever use it you will need a load that works up close . Most of the time 15 feet or less . Ever see what an 1.1/4 of #5 dose at 15 feet or less heavy shot like # 2 buck will having you will remodel and what a mess .
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Old February 24, 2020, 06:29 PM   #11
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The Mossberg 500 is a decent hunting gun. The 590 is designed as a combat shotgun and addresses the shortcomings of the 500. They are built on similar platforms, but the 590 is beefed up and with several design upgrades to meet military contract purposes. If you're looking for a dual purpose gun to hunt with and then swap out a barrel and use it for HD the 500 is a good choice. Strictly for HD, the 590 by a wide margin.

The Kel-Tec I know nothing about.

My personal preference is the Remington 870 platform. I like it better as a hunting gun and it does just fine as a HD gun with nothing more than a barrel change. But strictly for HD the 590 is every bit as good as the 870.

Quote:
Pump guns tend to be 100% reliable vs a semi-auto
That might have been true 75 years ago. Pump guns are more reliable in theory. But since they depend on human interaction they are less reliable in the real world. You'll see a lot more operator error failures with pumps than mechanical failures with modern semi-auto's.
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Old February 24, 2020, 07:21 PM   #12
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That might have been true 75 years ago. Pump guns are more reliable in theory. But since they depend on human interaction they are less reliable in the real world. You'll see a lot more operator error failures with pumps than mechanical failures with modern semi-auto's.
This is true also in 3Gun. Probably the harshest use of shotguns on the planet.
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Old February 24, 2020, 08:56 PM   #13
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If you can find one, I’d go for the 590A1 with the 18-1/2” barrel, ghost rings and Accuchoke system.

I don’t think they are in production right now, but I believe the model number was #50774.
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Old February 24, 2020, 09:34 PM   #14
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Don't be afraid of a little more barrel length, a 20' barrel can add a little weight which goes a long way in reducing recoil. I was handling a new 590A1 just the other day and was impressed, not as smooth as an 870 but a fine gun none the less.

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Old February 25, 2020, 07:15 AM   #15
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Thanks so much to everyone, I am taking in all this information!
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Old February 25, 2020, 03:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
That might have been true 75 years ago. Pump guns are more reliable in theory. But since they depend on human interaction they are less reliable in the real world. You'll see a lot more operator error failures with pumps than mechanical failures with modern semi-auto's.
And yet, even today, is there ANY major police or military group that issues a semi auto shotgun? despite the possibility of failure due to operator error (short shucking being the most common) pumps RULE the "combat" market, and I doubt that will be changing any time soon.

I'm old school, my home defense shotgun(s) are two, one is a double barrel coach gun (for the wife ) and the other is a Winchester model 12 that someone cut the barrel short on, some half century or more ago. It's legal length, and since I grew up hunting with a Model 12, its perfect, FOR ME.

(also one of the older guns without the disconnector, which is kind of fun )

I don't have any experience with the Keltec, and have always preferred Rem 870 or Win model 12 to any of the Mossbergs.

Cruise the local shops that sell used guns. You could find a mechanically sound Rem or possibly even a Winchester with a trashed finish at a price match or maybe even lower than a new Mossberg or anything else.

If you want something "tacky-cool" get one of the newer guns set up for that. If you just need a decent shotgun, look at the used guns, you might find something good and solid, at a good price, one that could have the barrel shortened and still not be all that spendy.

Good luck.
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Old February 25, 2020, 04:12 PM   #17
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Shotguns sound amazing for home defense. They have a big hole and the sound of the racked slide means business. I know several LEOs who have shared stories about walking down dark alleys yelling for suspects to come out of hiding and nothing happens. They then rack the slide on their shotgun and the suspect runs out. The truth is, if you’re planning to use it for HD, there had better be a shell in the tube already. Racking it in your house gives away your location and you may wind up dead as a result. Also tough to wield around tight corners. Unless there’s a plan to blow the hinges off doors in the event of a home invasion ( doubtful), something easier to manage with proper ammo is what I would recommend.

I went down the Moss 500 with tacticool stock and pistol grip, then whined about it blowing my shoulder off and being tough to disengage safety. I then changed the stock to standard and got rid of the pistol grip, put in a 590 trigger group and updated the safety to get away from the plastic parts. I added a pansy pad and though I had it in the bag. I took it to the range and a blew my shoulder off almost as bad as before! Disclaimer, I do have shoulder and rotator cuff issues and a couple of shots with the 500 and I was whimpering like a baby.

It was then sold at a total loss...

if going down the pump gun path, heavy is best. Something has to control the recoil. I’d say reconsider the HD weapon and buy a shotgun you can actually use for something.
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Old February 25, 2020, 05:51 PM   #18
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AZHeat, spot on. Funny, but true.
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Old February 25, 2020, 07:38 PM   #19
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Remington 870 preferably a Wingmaster.......my choice over the ones you listed.
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Old February 25, 2020, 07:53 PM   #20
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Mossberg 500 has many aftermarket options and add-ons.

the maverick is the econo version and still a decent choice.

reduced recoil rounds in 00 buck means no hard kick even in light weight guns.
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Old February 25, 2020, 08:38 PM   #21
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reduced recoil rounds in 00 buck means no hard kick even in light weight guns.
Do remember "there's no free lunch".

You gat a lot less recoil with a .410. too. Are you recommending one of those?
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Old February 25, 2020, 09:14 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Do remember "there's no free lunch".

You gat a lot less recoil with a .410. too. Are you recommending one of those?
nope. these. https://www.federalpremium.com/shots...1-H132+00.html

lunch is served, and its on me. buon appetito.
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Old February 26, 2020, 04:56 PM   #23
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I would, and have, recommended a .410 for HD. Why not? Yes, it has fewer pellets but how much does that matter. Four pellets of OOO buck shot at 1200 fps vs. 10 at the same velocity. You still have to aim the gun. Pattern size is the same given the same choke.
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Old February 26, 2020, 07:33 PM   #24
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I would, and have, recommended a .410 for HD. Why not? Yes, it has fewer pellets but how much does that matter. Four pellets of OOO buck shot at 1200 fps vs. 10 at the same velocity.
It matters by about 60% less wound channel. Air in, blood out, structural incapacitation, or overpressure shock are the 4 general ways projectiles stop attacks. Shotguns and handguns only get to use the first three. Buckshot is marginal at the third, so air in and blood out means more, or bigger holes, not less.

Buckshot pellets, are in essence, small caliber ball. There is little to no stretch cavity and they get pushed off path rather easily. The benefit of #1 buck over 00 buck comes in the form of more pellets and thus more tissue damage. The stopping potential of buckshot is only through more paths, not less. So, yeah it matters a good deal.

In those cases I have worked on professionally as a ballistics expert there are some departures and similarities between handgun and shotgun stopping power. I will assert that in most cases, it does not matter....22LR, 9mm, 00 Buck, Shotgun Slug, .223, .308...as far as stopping the threat. Sure, the death rate increases as you move up, but more times than not, a single shot stops the attack. It is those cases where it does not, where the minutiae of "stopping" power gets argued.

There are a LOT more cases of shotguns used criminally available for forensic analysis than cases used by the good guy. But in that realm, the survivability of those shot with shotguns (bird to buckshot, but not including slugs) is higher than those shot with normal defense/duty caliber pistols. It is not parallel since the victims are not homicidally motivated, but the direct mortality rate could be transferred to a probable difference favoring the handgun for stopping an attack. I am sure there are successful and unsuccessful stops with .410 buck, but the only two uses I have looked at were woefully unsuccessful.
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Old February 27, 2020, 06:57 AM   #25
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MarkCO: Thank you for that very clear response. I shall have to rethink my ideas about .410s and HD.
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