The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 21, 2020, 12:02 PM   #76
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
A federal holiday associated with civil rights seems the ideal day for such an event.
If so...why didn't the NRA attend?

Alex Jones of InfoWars --- expressing his gobbledygook, while standing and blasting his garbage through his megaphone on the back of his black pickup truck during the rally --- didn't help much for our gun rights either.
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell

Last edited by Erno86; January 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM.
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 12:11 PM   #77
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,804
Why would the NRA mishandle anything?

If MLK applied for a carry permit in 1956 and was denied, an MLK day protest against infringement of the right seems appropriate.

Quite a few people showed, and by all reports they behaved well and avoided violence, perhaps to the consternation of those looking for a public relations disaster. I'd call that a successful protest.

Last edited by zukiphile; January 21, 2020 at 01:24 PM.
zukiphile is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 01:38 PM   #78
Desmosedici
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2016
Posts: 8
I thought guys walking around with plate carriers stuffed with magazines and helmets/gloves.....I mean its their right to do that, I'm not sure the optics are very helpful to our cause.

And the guy walking around with the Barrett 50....I would't have done that.

I did rather enjoy seeing people of different races banding together, though. That didn't get covered nearly enough in mainstream media.
Desmosedici is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 02:14 PM   #79
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 7,501
Apparently, not many here have seen an antifa riot up close. I’ll take the tacticool people any day even as silly as it is.

I hate the image of the tacticool crowd, but hey it’s their right to express themselves.

Freedom means that some people are going to do something that you don’t like.

Antifa can bring a small city’s administration to its knees with antifa tactics. Turns out, protests are a constitutional right. Antifa rallies almost always descends into riot. Some times you need some ridiculous tactics and dress to make change.
I’ll never go out in public looking like an out of work mercenary, but it’s not my place to approve or disapprove.
rickyrick is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 04:29 PM   #80
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
Why would the NRA mishandle anything?

If MLK applied for a carry permit in 1956 and was denied, an MLK day protest against infringement of the right seems appropriate.

Quite a few people showed, and by all reports they behaved well and avoided violence, perhaps to the consternation of those looking for a public relations disaster. I'd call that a successful protest.
"After Martin Luther King Jr's home was firebombed in 1956, he applied for a concealed carry permit for his self-defense in the state of Alabama. In those days, local police had the right to determine who could and couldn't get a license. King's application was denied, despite the fact that his life was routinely, and that he wound up getting assassinated."

"Fear of blackness was behind then-California Gov. Ronald Reagan's decision in 1967 to sign a law that made it illegal to openly carry firearms in the state. Just before the law's passage, a group of Black Panthers openly carried their guns into the state Capitol building. The law had full backing of the NRA."

Source:

http://www.splinternews.com/the-seco...ple-1793860071
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 05:35 PM   #81
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erno86
None of which explains or supports a disgust at people having a civil rights protest on MLK day, right?
zukiphile is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 06:13 PM   #82
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,351
Quote:
And the guy walking around with the Barrett 50....I would't have done that.
Brandon runs a shop a few miles from me, and the first thing I thought about when I saw him on the news was the same thing - as that must have been a long and heavy day for him!!! no one wants to have to schlep a 50 for any period of time...
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 07:19 AM   #83
Carmady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2013
Location: on the lam
Posts: 1,405
Andy Warhol said everybody would be famous for 15 minutes. Brandon got his.
Carmady is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 08:17 AM   #84
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
A federal holiday associated with civil rights seems the ideal day for such an event.
Agree but I 'heard' one guy saying it wasn't cool to go shooting with my sons on MLK day because MLK was killed with a 'gun'..went anyway, had fun.
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 08:21 AM   #85
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
Apparently, not many here have seen an antifa riot up close. I’ll take the tacticool people any day even as silly as it is.

I hate the image of the tacticool crowd, but hey it’s their right to express themselves.

Freedom means that some people are going to do something that you don’t like.

Antifa can bring a small city’s administration to its knees with antifa tactics. Turns out, protests are a constitutional right. Antifa rallies almost always descends into riot. Some times you need some ridiculous tactics and dress to make change.
I’ll never go out in public looking like an out of work mercenary, but it’s not my place to approve or disapprove.
Yup, but both sporting 'uniforms' sends a really poor message. YES they have the right but demonstrations are all about perceptions and messaging, TO those watching. The people in the demonstration don't need to be convinced of anything. BUT, it's all about belonging and about 'tribes'...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...4913&FORM=VIRE
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 08:54 AM   #86
Famas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: French, currently living in US
Posts: 146
Yes, the tacti-cool attire or the need to show off one's "preparedness" I find counter-productive in such a event as the pro-2nd Amendment rally in Richmond, Virginia. That said, the media would have found something else to pounce on. Everyone could have arrived wearing their Sunday-best...and the media would have found something and jumped on it.....so really one should ask, why bother?

It should be noted that despite the tacti-coolness of many attendees....there were no arrests, no assaults, no incidents of any kind. They even pick up their trash as they left.....and those facts I think is what sent the medias running away at the end of the day with hardly no coverage. I wish I could have been there myself.
Famas is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 10:02 AM   #87
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRet93
Agree but I 'heard' one guy saying it wasn't cool to go shooting with my sons on MLK day because MLK was killed with a 'gun'..went anyway, had fun.
Outstanding.

It isn't clear to me that spending time with family or publicly supporting a civil right is less appropriate on MLK day than staying home from work or going out to shop.

As a stuffy old man, I have all sorts of opinions about what other people wear, especially young people. Generally, the only people who care about those opinions are other old men.

Why guys dress up in BDUs and assorted tactical stuff is a little bit curious. Lots of hobbies have aspirational attire. Car guys wear silly coats and shoes to emulate competitive drivers. Young men will dress in things that associate them with professional athletes. But most of what soldiers do is boring and unpleasant.
zukiphile is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 12:44 PM   #88
OuTcAsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Yes, the tacti-cool attire or the need to show off one's "preparedness" I find counter-productive in such a event as the pro-2nd Amendment rally in Richmond, Virginia
Perhaps, and I don't necessarily disagree about the "optics"

However there are a couple of different schools of thought that come to mind for me. I don't own any BDU's or "tactical" gear myself except for a few souvenirs from the past but given the totality of the background and circumstances leading up to the rally...

IF I were going to make a statement to the State Government that I was fully prepared to defend my rights to the extreme, I might show them exactly how prepared I am, just as they are. Be just as provocative as their "troops" are.

And IF I am going to attend a "rally" that could potentially erupt into violence, I might want to be as protected and prepared as I possibly could, should things go sideways.

I can see some degree of practicality to it.
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood

Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska -

Last edited by OuTcAsT; January 22, 2020 at 12:46 PM. Reason: spelling
OuTcAsT is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 03:11 PM   #89
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
zukiphile - post #81 - None of which explains or supports a disgust at people having a civil rights protest on MLK day, right?

Correct...though I am not accusing the majority of pro-gun rights protesters who went to the Richmond rally last Monday for attending it.

Yet it was just fortunate that "before being arrested by the FBI last week, three alleged members of a white supremacist group --- 'the Base,' is a rough English translation of 'al-Qaeda' --- were plotting deadly attacks at Monday's gun rights rally in Richmond, including shooting 'unsuspecting civilians and police officers' in hopes of igniting what one called a 'full-blown civil war,' authorities said in court filings."

"Police in Georgia on Friday had also arrested and charged three members of the Base. one of the men confided to an undercover FBI employee about a plan to kill two anti-fascist activists, according to a police affidavit, and he allegedly contemplated forming a side organization to commit murders."

Source:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/all...say/ar-BBZbXXY

The Washington Post - Wednesday, Janurary 22, 2020 - by Paul Duggan
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell

Last edited by Erno86; January 22, 2020 at 03:51 PM. Reason: added link
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 03:50 PM   #90
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erno86 View Post
imho --- I am thoroughly disgusted at the organizers of the pro-2nd Amendment rally in Richmond yesterday...because they staged the rally on MLK day.

Also...I believe that the majority of long gun bearers at the rally yesterday, put on a way too much aggressive posture, by carrying their rifles in a low ready position.
Well, if you try really hard you can probably be disgusted with anything.
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth
zxcvbob is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 04:00 PM   #91
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 7,501
That’s the problem, everyone thinks that everyone else should have the same values of everyone else.
A whole lot of people in this country want to legislate feelings and emotions.

I don’t see sympathy, empathy or a guarantee of unscathed feelings in the constitution anywhere.
What one person legally chooses to do on their holiday is up to them.
rickyrick is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 04:01 PM   #92
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,804
I understand the rally to have been organized by the Virginia Citizens Defense League. I've read nothing indicating they were involved in any conspiracies to commit murder.

If thousands of armed protestors don't drive home the point that arms themselves aren't the problem, what would?
zukiphile is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 04:14 PM   #93
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,591
It irked me when I saw a clip on TV at the Richmond pro gun rally --- no, I just didn't feel like showing up --- a dude waving a Confederate flag on MLK day.
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 06:04 PM   #94
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,648
some of you are under the delusion that wearing a suit and tie and supporting the 2nd Amendment will matter to those attacking it. news flash, aside from water being wet, nothing you do image wise, nothing, will persuade an anti 2nd amendment politician.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 06:37 PM   #95
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 20,983
Quote:
However there are a couple of different schools of thought that come to mind for me. I don't own any BDU's or "tactical" gear myself except for a few souvenirs from the past but given the totality of the background and circumstances leading up to the rally...
I would suggest this, for its "visual impact" (optics is something you look through...)

VETERANS attending the rally should wear their uniforms(or as much as still fits ). I would include more than just the dress uniform if possible (fatigues) in that as well. And if possible, a WWII infantry vet would look good in full web gear helmet and M1 carbine (one of the "assault weapons they want to ban)

Slogans such as "MY GOVERNMENT put this in my hands to fight tyranny. THIS government wants to make me a criminal for having it" or something like that.

Nam vets show up in your jungle cammies, Desert Storm guys, in your "chocolate chips" or what ever the proper name is.

We've SERVED. There is a degree of respect for that common in our culture again. That is a strong visual, I think.

Doesn't matter if you were a dogface, a jarhead, a squid or a wingwiper, hell I'd even allow... officers!

We all gave part of our lives, to protect those rights, some gave all of their lives. THAT is not something an elected official can be allowed to throw away.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 07:02 PM   #96
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 7,501
A lot of vets have seen the underbelly of the planet we live on, we know what’s at stake. We’ve seen the victims of tyranny piled up. We know that our country, the imperfect USA and all her problems, is still the best country on the planet. We know what happens in the absence of liberty. We have given lots of ourselves in the name of liberty, and many of our loved ones gave all. Some of our veterans don’t even have a grave.
rickyrick is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 07:33 PM   #97
JERRYS.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
A lot of vets have seen the underbelly of the planet we live on, we know what’s at stake. We’ve seen the victims of tyranny piled up. We know that our country, the imperfect USA and all her problems, is still the best country on the planet. We know what happens in the absence of liberty. We have given lots of ourselves in the name of liberty, and many of our loved ones gave all. Some of our veterans don’t even have a grave.
the left doesn't care, that's why they are all for government sponsored disarming of the people in order to better control them.
JERRYS. is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 09:33 PM   #98
American Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2018
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
A lot of vets have seen the underbelly of the planet we live on, we know what’s at stake. We’ve seen the victims of tyranny piled up. We know that our country, the imperfect USA and all her problems, is still the best country on the planet. We know what happens in the absence of liberty. We have given lots of ourselves in the name of liberty, and many of our loved ones gave all. Some of our veterans don’t even have a grave.
That post really hits home.
American Man is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 09:50 PM   #99
AZHeat
Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2014
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
A lot of vets have seen the underbelly of the planet we live on, we know what’s at stake. We’ve seen the victims of tyranny piled up. We know that our country, the imperfect USA and all her problems, is still the best country on the planet. We know what happens in the absence of liberty. We have given lots of ourselves in the name of liberty, and many of our loved ones gave all. Some of our veterans don’t even have a grave.
Some of us escaped those countries, seeing the same BS played out there. It’s like reading the same story over and over again. Same forces, same players, same results and yet somehow people think it’ll be different.

Last edited by AZHeat; January 23, 2020 at 09:34 AM.
AZHeat is offline  
Old January 22, 2020, 10:20 PM   #100
TBM900
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2015
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick View Post
A lot of vets have seen the underbelly of the planet we live on, we know what’s at stake. We’ve seen the victims of tyranny piled up. We know that our country, the imperfect USA and all her problems, is still the best country on the planet. We know what happens in the absence of liberty. We have given lots of ourselves in the name of liberty, and many of our loved ones gave all. Some of our veterans don’t even have a grave.
Yet today we are collectively squandering what they gave us.

They bled fighting off off the Redcoats...
Their blood filled the muddy trenches...
They died face down in the surf...

Yet we cannot even seem to muster the effort to meaningfully fight off the progress of the likes of this...












Our Republic is dying, if we do not fight to stop it, our nation is gone....
__________________
Queen of England
Retired Colonial Marine
14th Earl to walk on the moon

Last edited by TBM900; January 22, 2020 at 10:35 PM.
TBM900 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10403 seconds with 10 queries