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Old December 4, 2019, 06:48 PM   #1
webberwood
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300 win mag bean field load

I recently acquired a Remington 700 bdl in 300 Winchester Magnum. I would like to work up a load for whitetail deer that I could comfortably use out to ~400 yards without much concern for holdover. I don’t always have time to pull out the rangefinder so I’m looking for flattest possible trajectory up to 400 yards. I’m looking pretty closely at the 130 gr Barnes ttsx. Any thoughts on this?
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Old December 4, 2019, 09:50 PM   #2
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G1 Ballistic Coefficient of .35 ..... not stellar ..... even if you push it to 3400 f/sec muzzle velocity, you are still dropping more than a foot from a 200 yard zero. I'd look for a more efficient bullet if you want less holdover.
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Old December 5, 2019, 11:49 AM   #3
TX Nimrod
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All high BC hunting bullets at nominal max .300 WinMag velocities. Velocity trumps BC here. Sighted in 3” high at 100 yards the drop at 400=

125 [email protected] = -8”
150 [email protected] = -9”
165 [email protected] = -11”
[email protected] = -13”

There is no such thing as zero holdover for a 400 yard shot without a long range sightin.


.
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Old December 5, 2019, 01:37 PM   #4
Don Fischer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX Nimrod View Post
All high BC hunting bullets at nominal max .300 WinMag velocities. Velocity trumps BC here. Sighted in 3” high at 100 yards the drop at 400=

125 [email protected] = -8”
150 [email protected] = -9”
165 [email protected] = -11”
[email protected] = -13”

There is no such thing as zero holdover for a 400 yard shot without a long range sightin.


.
Ditto!
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Old December 5, 2019, 02:45 PM   #5
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Don, what would the drop be at 400 yards if zeroed at 200 yards?
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Old December 5, 2019, 06:19 PM   #6
webberwood
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I also have a 6mm-06 at my disposal but I suspect the drop would be similar even with lighter and significantly faster projectiles.
I’m open to other cartridges as well if there is something that comes close to this. Maybe a 6.5-300 Weatherby would do it?
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Old December 5, 2019, 09:56 PM   #7
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A 178gr Hornady ELD-X carries a BC of .545, bringing a lot of energy to 400 yards. From Hornady X - 3100fps with a 300 yard Zero. 3.3" high at 100, dropping 9.2" at 400 yards at 2426Velocity and 2327Energy.
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Old December 5, 2019, 09:57 PM   #8
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weberwood
What's the twist on the 6mm-06?
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Old December 5, 2019, 10:06 PM   #9
603Country
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At 3000 FPS, sighted in at 200 yards, you will have a drop of about 7” at 300, 20” at 400, and 40” at 500.

I have a friend that hunts with a 30-378 Wby and uses handloads with 125 gr Ballistic Tips. That load, going on memory, is moving about 3800 FPS. Sighted in at 200, his drops would be about 5” at 300, 15” at 400, and somewhere around 35ish” at 500. Much like my 220 Swift.

Rechecked the 125 gr BT at 3800 FPS. Drops, sighted in at 200, are more like 4”, 12”, and 25”. Dang, that is flat.

Last edited by 603Country; December 5, 2019 at 10:13 PM.
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Old December 5, 2019, 11:26 PM   #10
webberwood
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The 6mm-06 was set up originally for varmints so it has aa 1-10” twist
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Old December 6, 2019, 11:10 AM   #11
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This is what I would do. Use my rangefinder to scout out 50 yard intervals down the range of fire using trees, fence posts etc as landmarks before the deer shows up. Then when Mr Deer comes ambling across you know instantly how much of a hold over you need. Kind of the old fashioned way but that's what I did when I used to hunt my Uncle's apple orchard many years ago. Did not have electronic rangefinders back then. We just paced it off but I bagged severals whitetails that way shooting out to the 250 yard treeline with a 4X Sears and Roebuck scope. Got one with iron sights and a 303 Enfield. I knew exactly how far those rows of apple trees were apart so it was a simple matter.

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Old December 23, 2019, 06:29 AM   #12
Bob4
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I used to hunt bean fields also. Because of buck fever anytime a target with hair presented itself I bought a scope with ranging turrets. Couple of clicks and I'm on. Forget the clicks and you'll hate the scope.
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Old December 23, 2019, 06:21 PM   #13
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What about the wind? Those light for caliber low bc bullets may get you a little less holdover but even a 5mph breeze is going to blow them off coarse a good bit 6.6"@400 assuming a 130gr [email protected] I use a 300 win too but with a 208gr [email protected] with a 250yd zero im 14" low at 400yds hold just above hair and it drops neatly into the kill zone.
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Last edited by bacardisteve; December 23, 2019 at 07:08 PM.
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Old December 24, 2019, 08:44 PM   #14
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The only thing I know that will do what you want is a .257 Roy. 80 ttsx is 2 high at 100 and 6 low at 400.
The 6.5x300 Wby comes close, but not quite as flat.

Last edited by reynolds357; December 24, 2019 at 08:59 PM.
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Old December 25, 2019, 07:31 PM   #15
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ok so I do have some experience with a 300 win mag. Over the last year I have developed a load using the 200 grain Hornady E-LDX and Alliant Reloder 26, using Hornady brass and CCI 250 primers.

I wont list my load data here and I have a bit of a fast barrel. I am able to Push that bullet at 3050 FPS at the muzzle with 1 MOA accuracy. However you may not be able to get that kind of velocity with that heavy of a bullet. With the same powder I have another load that shoots 2950 FPS. Either way, I think it is reasonable that with a 26 inch barrel you should be able to get around 2950 FPS, (maybe). If you can do that Safely then your trajectory should look something like this.

100yds- +3.75"
200yds- + 4.25"
300yds- 0"
400yds- -10" carrying over 2400 Ft LBS of energy.

On a deer sized animal out to 350 yds I would hold center mass, and at the top of their back at 400 yds. Recoil begins to get pretty intense when pushing that 200 grain pill at that velocity. Much more than with factory ammunition. Also your rifle may not even be able to achieve those velocities.

270 WSM might be worth a look. I Use Winchester brass, H-1000 and a 130 grain Sierra Gameking. I get a stunningly consistent 3300 FPS from that rifle (SD only 5 fps) I sight that rifle 3" high at 100 yds and I am just 8.5 inches low at 400 yds with a 300 yd zero. This load and bullet has a maximum point blank range of 358 yards assuming a target size of 8". The benefit of the 270 WSM is less recoil, and easier to find powder than Reloder 26. The only draw back to the 270 WSM is that it carries around 700 Ft LBS less energy at 400 yds than the 300 with the 200 grain E-LDX.
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Last edited by kilotanker22; December 25, 2019 at 07:39 PM.
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Old December 25, 2019, 07:50 PM   #16
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I have enough faith in that 270 wsm rifle and load that I would not hesitate to take 400 yd shots with even a decent resting place. It really is a joy to shoot. I routinely shoot sub .5 moa groups at 300 yds with it. I have shot ground hogs at 400 plus yds with that rifle with boring consistency off of a bipod. Even shot a squirrel at 330 yards with it right in the head (Front rest and rear bag). Although I practice at 300 yds with that rifle when I go to the range.

This is not a heavy rifle either. It is a Thompson Center Venture with a sporter weight 22 inch barrel and a 3-9 power Nikon Prostaff. You could probably buy all that new for around $550 out the door.
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Last edited by kilotanker22; December 25, 2019 at 07:56 PM. Reason: I suck at spelling
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Old December 25, 2019, 08:26 PM   #17
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No one gives much thought to flat trajectory anymore. Out to 300 yards pretty much every modern bottle neck cartridge with a decent pointed bullet doesn't drop enough to require any real hold over. With a 100 yard zero you're going to hit big game in the kill zone at 300 if you hold just an inch or 2 over the back with just about any cartridge/bullet combo.

Beyond 300 you NEED a range finder with any of them. At 400 yards the difference in bullet drop between a 308 and a 300WM is only about 7". About 20" vs 27" with a 100 yard zero.

But the difference between 350 and 400, or 400 and 450 is 8-10". If you don't have a range finder and GUESS the animal is 400 yards when in reality it is either 350 or 450 then you're going to be off by 8-10" with either a 308 or a 300 WM. With a range finder it isn't any harder to make those hits with a 308 than a 300 WM.
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Old December 25, 2019, 11:05 PM   #18
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The reason Jeff Cooper liked 2" high at 100 or the 200-yard zero was to figure some allowance for limits to the shooter's holding ability. That approach gave half the kill zone diameter away to human error (he used an 8" kill zone, coming from a combat perspective). If you are on a bench, that's different from most field positions, so you want to make allowance for that. The light bullets shoot faster and flatter at the sorts of ranges mentioned here, but carry less impact energy and momentum to the target as well as suffering greater wind deflection. So the tradeoff is you get a longer point-blank range in still air, but you have to hit more precisely and read wind a little more accurately to get an equally solid kill. It's not going to be an issue with White Tails, but larger game needs to have that given some consideration.

Not mentioned thus far is that everyone is assuming a sightline 1.5" above the bore line. Change that and the drops change.
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