N350 vs 3N37 for 9mm?

IM_Lugger · June 25, 2007, 01:59 PM

I have a chance to try Vihtavuory powders for the first time

(I've used a number of Hodgdon, Aliant and IMR powders already)

I'm looking for high velocity powder for 9mm and both N350 and 3N37 seem to be the top contenders. My favourite was Power pistol but I have hard time finding any right now...

So between the two which one is better? is one cleaner buring than the other? does one have more muzzle flash than the other?

MrApathy · June 25, 2007, 03:47 PM

I like n340 myself

havent tried n350 or 3n37 looking at book data not a great deal of difference. 350 little slower burning and more speed and more the same with 3n37.

love how n340 meters though bit crunchy. have had very consistent results
in velocity little to no flash.

I keep Vv for defense loads in 9mm otherwise go with powerpistol.
one note Vv does not compress as nicely as powerpistol.

what bullet weight?

HSMITH · June 25, 2007, 04:54 PM

Loaded long for a fully supported barrel I have gotten over 1550 with 115's in a 9mm using 3n-37. Word among those that know is that 3n-37 will spike pressure dramatically, though in my application I did not get pressures that high. N350 is supposed to be a little more forgiving than 3n-37, but the can I have is still on the shelf waiting for me to get around to testing it.

Power Pistol will go fast, so will Longshot. I am currently using Longshot for USPSA major power factor loads in 9mm, I am running 115's right at 1500 with it. I like Longshot because it is on the shelf everywhere, $125 or so for an 8# can, is reasonably clean and consistent.

Ramshot Silhouette is another good one, might even be the best, but it is hard to find.

IM_Lugger · June 25, 2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

what bullet weight?

124gr copper plated

btw I don't mind a little muzzle flash...

Quote:

Ramshot Silhouette is another good one, might even be the best, but it is hard to find.

what kind of velocities can you get using that powder?

WESHOOT2 · June 26, 2007, 05:08 AM

IME 3N37 is the one you seek; I have used a bit for my nukes.

MUST USE chrono, new sized cases ONLY, CCI500.

HSMITH · June 26, 2007, 11:00 AM

IM, over 1500 using 115 jhp, with ease. But again, loaded long and shot from a fully supported barrel with a 'different' throat than anything else you are going to find. I have taken 3n-37, HS-6, Longshot, Power Pistol, and Silhouette all over 1500 and not even flattened a Federal small pistol primer yet.

Skip the plated bullets for really fast loads, they just don't work well. Buy some good bullets for things like this.

WESHOOT2, have you taken 3n-37 to the fence? I haven't gotten any pressure signs from it at all and am wondering what you have seen. Email or PM is fine too.....

IM_Lugger · June 26, 2007, 12:02 PM

I plan to stay with in the max charge limits (which should still give me 1200+fps with 124gr bullet if I use 3N37 or N350), but I will be using fired brass and likely WSP primers...and going to be shooting the reloads in my 92FS, P226 and M&P.

Don't want to push my luck and blow up a gun/hand... maybe later once I get 'play' with the powder for a bit

I was looking at Vv online load data and they don't specify the pressures of their loads. I'm guessing they're all under 35K psi?

btw HSMITH what do you mena by loading long? more than 1.169"? what was your HS-6 load if you don't mind me asking?

HSMITH · June 26, 2007, 03:58 PM

IM, I am loading currently with 115 JHP to 1.200". It maximizes the powder space I have, requires more powder, and creates more gas for the compensator.

My HS-6 load was drastically north of listed loads, definately not suitable to post north of listed max

Purpose built gun, purpose built loads, etc.

WESHOOT2 · July 1, 2007, 11:00 AM

Not to the absolute fence as I chickened out at "friggin' fast enough".

Pressure signs noted were an increase in velocity, but my fired cases (brass Speer; tightly-chambered Nowlin barrel) only showed primer smear.

LACK of signs is what ultimately caused my feathered nature, because at those levels I wished to see SOMETHING.

I would willingly chrono-map all the way to primer failure; I ain't actually scared ('cause I rarely use that gun anymore).
Just didn't need any more speed (disintegrating bullets?).

IM_Lugger · July 1, 2007, 03:03 PM

I just noticed that 3N38 can push a 147gr XTP bullet at 1207fps!!

wow that's faster than Double tap and Buffalo bore +p+ loads or any other comercial loads availabe AFAIK!

but they don't have any pressure data, I'm assuming that's under 35K PSI?

Also they don't have any other 3N38 data for 9mm can I use it with for 124gr bullets?

anyone here uses 3N38 for 9mm?

HSMITH · July 2, 2007, 03:15 PM

IM, you are gonna tear the heck out of the 92 with these loads, better order a locking block now.......

WESHOOT2, same thing here, got WAY up there in power factor and there was no reasonable reason to go any further.

45Marlin carbine · July 2, 2007, 03:56 PM

IM_Lugger - not to hijack the thread here but noticed the post about 147 gr. pills at 1207. I have a Marlin Camp in 9MM I'm seeking load data for faster-than-pistol loads. I have stiffer recoil spring. thanks for any info.

WESHOOT2 · July 4, 2007, 09:09 AM

Way up there; I use an EGW firing pin

IM_Lugger · July 4, 2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

IM_Lugger - not to hijack the thread here but noticed the post about 147 gr. pills at 1207. I have a Marlin Camp in 9MM I'm seeking load data for faster-than-pistol loads. I have stiffer recoil spring. thanks for any info.

Accoring to VihtaVuory load guide 6.9gr of 3N38 (max charge; use 6.3gr as a starting load) can push 147gr Hornady XTP at 1207fps.

June 25, 2007, 01:59 PM	#1
IM_Lugger Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2004 Posts: 2,011	N350 vs 3N37 for 9mm? I have a chance to try Vihtavuory powders for the first time (I've used a number of Hodgdon, Aliant and IMR powders already) I'm looking for high velocity powder for 9mm and both N350 and 3N37 seem to be the top contenders. My favourite was Power pistol but I have hard time finding any right now... So between the two which one is better? is one cleaner buring than the other? does one have more muzzle flash than the other? __________________ "I feel the Beretta is a great character, it's so strong and elegant. The other guns look dumb to me." - John Woo

June 25, 2007, 03:47 PM	#2
MrApathy Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Posts: 529	I like n340 myself havent tried n350 or 3n37 looking at book data not a great deal of difference. 350 little slower burning and more speed and more the same with 3n37. love how n340 meters though bit crunchy. have had very consistent results in velocity little to no flash. I keep Vv for defense loads in 9mm otherwise go with powerpistol. one note Vv does not compress as nicely as powerpistol. what bullet weight? __________________ Divided and conquered, Gripped by fear Wishful thinking that it can't happen here It's well underways but nobody knows A repeat of history, That's how it goes

June 26, 2007, 05:08 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Power Pistol, HS6, WAP (lotsa WAP), 3N37, N350, Longshot, others... IME 3N37 is the one you seek; I have used a bit for my nukes. MUST USE chrono, new sized cases ONLY, CCI500. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 26, 2007, 12:02 PM	#7
IM_Lugger Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2004 Posts: 2,011	thanks I plan to stay with in the max charge limits (which should still give me 1200+fps with 124gr bullet if I use 3N37 or N350), but I will be using fired brass and likely WSP primers...and going to be shooting the reloads in my 92FS, P226 and M&P. Don't want to push my luck and blow up a gun/hand... maybe later once I get 'play' with the powder for a bit I was looking at Vv online load data and they don't specify the pressures of their loads. I'm guessing they're all under 35K psi? btw HSMITH what do you mena by loading long? more than 1.169"? what was your HS-6 load if you don't mind me asking? __________________ "I feel the Beretta is a great character, it's so strong and elegant. The other guns look dumb to me." - John Woo

July 1, 2007, 11:00 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	big baby, I am (at 'factory' length) Not to the absolute fence as I chickened out at "friggin' fast enough". Pressure signs noted were an increase in velocity, but my fired cases (brass Speer; tightly-chambered Nowlin barrel) only showed primer smear. LACK of signs is what ultimately caused my feathered nature, because at those levels I wished to see SOMETHING. I would willingly chrono-map all the way to primer failure; I ain't actually scared ('cause I rarely use that gun anymore). Just didn't need any more speed (disintegrating bullets?). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 25, 2007, 04:54 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Loaded long for a fully supported barrel I have gotten over 1550 with 115's in a 9mm using 3n-37. Word among those that know is that 3n-37 will spike pressure dramatically, though in my application I did not get pressures that high. N350 is supposed to be a little more forgiving than 3n-37, but the can I have is still on the shelf waiting for me to get around to testing it. Power Pistol will go fast, so will Longshot. I am currently using Longshot for USPSA major power factor loads in 9mm, I am running 115's right at 1500 with it. I like Longshot because it is on the shelf everywhere, $125 or so for an 8# can, is reasonably clean and consistent. Ramshot Silhouette is another good one, might even be the best, but it is hard to find.

June 26, 2007, 11:00 AM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	IM, over 1500 using 115 jhp, with ease. But again, loaded long and shot from a fully supported barrel with a 'different' throat than anything else you are going to find. I have taken 3n-37, HS-6, Longshot, Power Pistol, and Silhouette all over 1500 and not even flattened a Federal small pistol primer yet. Skip the plated bullets for really fast loads, they just don't work well. Buy some good bullets for things like this. WESHOOT2, have you taken 3n-37 to the fence? I haven't gotten any pressure signs from it at all and am wondering what you have seen. Email or PM is fine too.....

June 26, 2007, 03:58 PM	#8
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	IM, I am loading currently with 115 JHP to 1.200". It maximizes the powder space I have, requires more powder, and creates more gas for the compensator. My HS-6 load was drastically north of listed loads, definately not suitable to post north of listed max Purpose built gun, purpose built loads, etc.

July 1, 2007, 03:03 PM	#10
IM_Lugger Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2004 Posts: 2,011	Another Question :) I just noticed that 3N38 can push a 147gr XTP bullet at 1207fps!! wow that's faster than Double tap and Buffalo bore +p+ loads or any other comercial loads availabe AFAIK! but they don't have any pressure data, I'm assuming that's under 35K PSI? Also they don't have any other 3N38 data for 9mm can I use it with for 124gr bullets? anyone here uses 3N38 for 9mm? __________________ "I feel the Beretta is a great character, it's so strong and elegant. The other guns look dumb to me." - John Woo

July 2, 2007, 03:15 PM	#11
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	IM, you are gonna tear the heck out of the 92 with these loads, better order a locking block now....... WESHOOT2, same thing here, got WAY up there in power factor and there was no reasonable reason to go any further.

July 2, 2007, 03:56 PM	#12
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	IM_Lugger - not to hijack the thread here but noticed the post about 147 gr. pills at 1207. I have a Marlin Camp in 9MM I'm seeking load data for faster-than-pistol loads. I have stiffer recoil spring. thanks for any info.

July 4, 2007, 09:09 AM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	K B Way up there; I use an EGW firing pin __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"