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Old April 28, 2018, 07:35 PM   #1
ncpatriot
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Pump or Double Barrel for Older Woman

A friend's mother has been turned down for a handgun permit. I urged him to help her appeal to a judge here. May or may not work out.

She lives in a dangerous neighborhood and needs protection. She is 67, not good health. We've talked some & I suggested getting her a 20 gauge pump shotgun with 18 or 20 inch barrel. May be a lot for her to handle but she does need something, mainly for the home. I am also wondering if she would do better with a 20 gauge or .410 double barrel. Stoeger has the side by side coach gun in 20 and .410, a little under $500 from what I've seen around. The double is very simple to load & shoot, though less firepower.

I like the looks of the Mossberg JIC, very compact. But it only comes in 12 gauge and may be too much for her to handle.

Thoughts?
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Old April 28, 2018, 07:42 PM   #2
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They make some decent 410 SD ammo since The Judge, et al, have come out. If she can't handle a lot of recoil, a 410 pump might do the job
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Old April 28, 2018, 08:22 PM   #3
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Since you've posted this in General Discussion and not in the shotgun forum, I'm going to take the liberty of suggesting that a shotgun may not be the best choice -- for instance, a pistol-caliber carbine would have a lot less recoil and muzzle blast.

The best thing would be to let her try a few alternatives and see what she's comfortable with -- preferably with the help of a professional instructor. And whatever weapon she chooses, encourage her to get professional training -- and a lot of practice with it.

And it would also be good to look at what else can be done to make her home more secure, so that she's that much less likely ever to need a weapon for self defense. Better locks, securing windows, a security system -- all are areas where a couple of strong, handy friends could make a real difference.
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Old April 28, 2018, 08:25 PM   #4
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Actually, I see Cheaper than Dirt has a Mossberg Cruiser .410, styled like JIC, pistol grip. I like that being compact in tight quarters. I don't think I'd seen it before.
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Old April 28, 2018, 08:35 PM   #5
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Pump will probably be lighter than a double barrel and have more rounds than just 2.
probably some thing like Mosbergs tactical HS 419, has 5 rounds, 19 inch barrel with comp., 6 pounds weight, with a vertical grip on pump slide. Would probably be easier to pump action. Quick look on gun broker they seem to be running 250.00-400.00 dollars.
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Old April 28, 2018, 09:36 PM   #6
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There is also the Mossberg Shockwave available in 20 gauge, price between 350-400. But we do not know if this lady has ever handled firearms before, so there would be the learning curve to work with also. Any gun would be worthless if she was not proficient in it's use, AND being of the mindset to shoot someone if it came down to that. Does she need a permit to own a handgun or to buy the handgun? Or are you referring to a conceal permit, which would not be needed in her own house.
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Old April 28, 2018, 09:40 PM   #7
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A 67 year old woman with no training doesn't need a pistol-grip shotgun, no matter how cool you think they are.
A Ruger 10/22 with a factory 25 rd magazine might be in order.
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Old April 28, 2018, 10:33 PM   #8
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Or a Hi-Point 9mm carbine.
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Old April 28, 2018, 11:29 PM   #9
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Maybe so.
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Old April 29, 2018, 04:49 AM   #10
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A carbine is a good idea though the Hi-Point is not what I would call light, but it could work.
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Old April 29, 2018, 07:26 AM   #11
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no CCW

WHY was she turned down for her permit? Is there a physical limitation that precluded her from effectively handling a firearm?

That aside, does she have the strength to safely handle a shotgun?

Multiple shots from a .22 semi-auto is an effective weapon and can be easily controlled as recoil is eliminated from the scenario.
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Old April 29, 2018, 08:46 AM   #12
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Will this firearm actually make her safer, or just make you feel better about the situation?
Without training and ability, it may be you are introducing a $500 bit of potential loot in to a scenario where better locks, a good flashlight, having the cops and fire department on speed dial or perhaps even a security system would be of more practical use.

I remember when a friend’s feisty old grandma was feeling too much of her arthritis to head out in the pre-dawn light opening day of deer season. She woke up and while she was making coffee she saw a big buck just standing in the bottom 40. She went to the gun cabinet, unlocked it, stepped out on to the back porch, and as the buck was still just standing there, shot him at 150 yards with her 30-06. Rode the lawn tractor with trailer down and by the time the boys got home her deer was hanging in the garage.

I mention this because... old ladies can shoot. It just sounds to me like the one you are talking about maybe might not be one of them.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeestalker
A carbine is a good idea though the Hi-Point is not what I would call light, but it could work.
I tossed out the Hi-Point by name because it's affordable and reliable. Certainly, any pistol caliber carbine would work, and there are better guns out there. My immediate first thought, in fact, was a Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine, but they're only available used, they're pricey (I don't know if cost is a consideration here), and they have an inherent weakness. Say what you like about the Hi-Points, they're cheap and they work.
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Old April 29, 2018, 10:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
I tossed out the Hi-Point by name because it's affordable and reliable. Certainly, any pistol caliber carbine would work, and there are better guns out there. My immediate first thought, in fact, was a Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine, but they're only available used, they're pricey (I don't know if cost is a consideration here), and they have an inherent weakness. Say what you like about the Hi-Points, they're cheap and they work.
I agree it is a good choice. I recently paid $269.99 for mine (not on sale) and it is simple, reliable and accurate.
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Old April 29, 2018, 10:27 AM   #15
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Oh I don't have a problem with Hi-Points at all.
I own a 9mm and a 45 and I bought 45s for both of my sons, I was only mentioning that they are in fact heavy.
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Old April 29, 2018, 11:12 AM   #16
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Shotgun for a 67 year old lady with health issues is not a good idea. Man, I thought NC was a permissive State until I found out that a permit is required to purchase a handgun. PURCHASE?!

I'm with Bill D on this one. A 10/22 would be a fine tool for HD. A lowly 22LR from a rifle barrel puts out as much energy as a 38 Snub, and I don't anyone here would say a 38 Spl is a POOR choice for SD. The only downside is the whole rimfire thing. However, an extended firing pin replacement and a heavier hammer spring will make the 10/22 deadly reliable.
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Old April 29, 2018, 12:20 PM   #17
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"...not good health..." That has more to do with her using a firearm at all. How bad her health is may affect how or if she can physically operate a pump safely. She'd likely be better off with a dog. Even in a "dangerous neighbourhood". Criminals tend to be afraid of dogs.
Mind you, a mag fed, pistol calibre, carbine isn't difficult to operate even if one's health isn't great. You won't be doing it if your hands are arthritic though. Lotta ifs involved.
Any shotgun with no stock is a big kid's, Hollywood inspired, toy. Isn't suitable for anybody defending their home. Regardless of the chambering.
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Old April 29, 2018, 04:50 PM   #18
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I think Evan Thomas and Bill DeShivs are on the money here. I'm thinking a 20 gauge is going to be too much for her and most .410 pumps hold less than 5 rounds, I believe. I'm not all that up on .410 pumps.

I think a two shot pump is too limiting for an old lady. I don't have a doubt running a single or double barrel shotgun for home defense, but I'm in my 20's, I can get physical if I have to, and it's not like a double is my only gun.

A Ruger or Beretta 9mm Carbine or a 10/22 with 25 round mags will go a long way for home protection and the ammo is cheap to shoot.

One thing you may want to consider is the Ruger Charger pistol. You can buy an adapter that will fit an AR buffer tube on it and that will allow use of a pistol brace that is adjustable so she can get the optimum length of pull. Also, the barrel is 10 inches, so she'd have a nice compact .22.

It doesn't have any iron sights on it, just a rail for an optic. I think a red dot would be a good choice, but a laser could also be done as the Charger comes with a piece of rail underneath to mount a bipod.
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Old April 29, 2018, 06:49 PM   #19
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.410 pump such as this Mossberg:

https://www.mossberg.com/product/500...ecurity-50359/

Not sure what is on the end of the barrel, though, some kind of compensator? I'd rip that off there in a heartbeat, useless extra length for a house gun. Other than that this is set up about perfect. This and some 410 buck would be ideal.
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Old April 29, 2018, 07:03 PM   #20
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I have recently seen the new Ruger 9mm carbine in action. It is light and trivial recoil. Shotguns are not the way to go - let's skip the god of thunder's hammer cliches.

I had a coworker who could never understand why his frail elderly wife wouldn't go shoot the 12 gauge pistol grip he bought for her defense. He was an idiot. There was a recent show with Michael Bane and Gabe Suarez shooting various pistol grip, Shockwave type and fully stocked shotguns. See if it is online and then rethink a shotgun.

Pumps are notorious for malfunctions if short stroked, etc. - esp. with folks with little practice. The next shot is a bear if not held properly.

A 10/22 she could shoot would be better than a shotgun that she can't.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:02 PM   #21
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I'll take a guess she is pretty much helpless. I doubt she could work a pump or lift a double barrel.

I honestly have no advice that I can offer.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:50 PM   #22
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I'm surprised to hear this is happening in NC. Must she have a permit to own a pistol?
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Old April 30, 2018, 08:10 AM   #23
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Mossberg 500 youth/bantam in .410 will do her good. Can be found for $300ish
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Old April 30, 2018, 08:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
I have recently seen the new Ruger 9mm carbine in action. It is light and trivial recoil. Shotguns are not the way to go - let's skip the god of thunder's hammer cliches.

I had a coworker who could never understand why his frail elderly wife wouldn't go shoot the 12 gauge pistol grip he bought for her defense. He was an idiot. There was a recent show with Michael Bane and Gabe Suarez shooting various pistol grip, Shockwave type and fully stocked shotguns. See if it is online and then rethink a shotgun.

Pumps are notorious for malfunctions if short stroked, etc. - esp. with folks with little practice. The next shot is a bear if not held properly.

A 10/22 she could shoot would be better than a shotgun that she can't.
Good advice.
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Old April 30, 2018, 09:06 AM   #25
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410 probably wouldn't bother her at all. Have the barrel cut back to min length and have the stock fitted to her. Then get her out to where she can shoot now and then. I think it's a bad idea to put a gun in some one's hands that doesn't already shoot. Best thing I heard was an alarm system. Think I'd put dead bolt's on every door and rig the window's so they can't be opened all the way. Probably motion detector light's would be enough but I'd put them with the alarm system. A gun is not the answer to all problems. Putting one in her hands could make the event worse should she have second though's about shooting another human being.
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