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Old March 6, 2018, 04:44 PM   #1
cloud8a
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The shotgun I want

I want a Remington Wingmaster that I can hunt deer and turkey with. I’d like to find one in the $300-$350 range. I’d like it to be an auto. The most important thing to me though is that it can effectively kill deer and turkey as well as any shotgun can. The place I hunt is shotgun and black powder only.

I have a 870 WM in 16 guage full choke and the 2 3/4 only shells that fit it are not that great for turkey.

What model and guage do you guys suggest?
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Old March 6, 2018, 05:09 PM   #2
eastbank
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pick up a used rem 1100 with choke tubes. a turkey shot at 35 yards will be dead with 1-1/4 oz #5 or #6.
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Old March 6, 2018, 05:48 PM   #3
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I second eastbank. I have an 1100 that I use for birds and deer.
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Old March 6, 2018, 06:04 PM   #4
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1100

3X on the 1100.

A fantastic shotgun that can do deer, birds and sporting clays as well.

Just use the proper shells and chokes for your particular hunting.

I use #6 for pheasants and slugs for white tails. Sporting clays works fine with #8
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Old March 6, 2018, 06:19 PM   #5
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So does it need to take 3 inch shells? Or will 2 3/4 with choke tubes be the ticket?
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Old March 6, 2018, 06:54 PM   #6
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Wingmaster is a pump; you want the 1100 as mentioned; 2-3/4" will easily do the job of you do yours.
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Old March 7, 2018, 04:21 PM   #7
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What guage though? 12?
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Old March 7, 2018, 08:22 PM   #8
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For deer and turkey, I'll go out on a limb and say yes to it being a 12.............
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Old March 7, 2018, 08:44 PM   #9
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I like the way, you think.

Quote:
3X on the 1100.
I'm not up on the latest and greatest but my 1100 has served me well for many years. Have lost count of the deer I have taken. I also have a 20GA. and it loves to hunt upland. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old March 8, 2018, 08:50 PM   #10
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back in the day

My Dad was a 16 ga man, and there were several shotguns so chambered that resided at our place over the years. Dad never was one to spend too much on guns or accessories, the one that remained and is in my possession is a Savave/Stevens 67. I also have several boxes of Dad's old ammo, and among those are 16 ga "short magnums" throwing 1-1/4 oz of shot. Those old loads, if they patterned, would be good turkey loads at reasonable ranges and the equal of a standard 12 ga heavy field load. The two boxes of16 ga short mags
in my collection are Remington #2 shot, and I think Federal #6.

The 1-1/8 and 1-1/4 oz 16 ga loads are often criticized as producing poor patterns, and too much recoil for a 16 ga. There were/are a number of good 16 ga guns made back in the day. I often see 870's and Auto 5's in 16ga in the used gun racks. Likely a pipe dream, but one of the big ammo makers should come up with a line of premium/specialty 16 ga heavy loads to boost the 16 ga. Even the current "heavy" 16 ga load, the 1-1/8 load, with the simple addition of buffered shot would likely improve the 16 as a gobbler gun. With the price point ammo commonly found, its no wonder the 16 ga languishes.
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Old March 8, 2018, 08:59 PM   #11
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Problem is, there are not many 16 gauge shotguns any more. A few guns with 16 gauge barrels, but they are mostly as big as a 12.
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Old March 9, 2018, 01:09 PM   #12
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"...yes to it being a 12..." A 12 will be more versatile. However, a 20 gauge will do the same job with less felt recoil. That won't matter with a semi-auto though.
"...not that great for turkey..." It's the choke, not the ammo. People do hunt turkey with a 20 gauge. Mind you, with a 16 gauge, you'll have to be reloading. And you'll have to pattern any shotgun for turkey. A lot depends on what choke your 870 has. Best if it's a RemChoke.
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Old March 9, 2018, 02:08 PM   #13
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A 16 gauge Model 12 is on my short list. Carries like a 20 hits like a 12.
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Old March 9, 2018, 03:18 PM   #14
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If you can use sabot and rifled barrel look for a used Ultra slug hunter, the 20 I have is flat shooting, low recoil tack driver. I’ll never go back to 12 fosters for deer. For turkey any full choked 12gauge will suffice. Spend the money on the deer gun and scrimp for the turkey gun.


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Old March 9, 2018, 03:24 PM   #15
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I have seen somewhat of a comeback with the 16 lately - more ammo choices, more folks buying/ordering new ones - even Perazzi has come out with one.
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Old March 10, 2018, 06:18 AM   #16
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inspired

Prompted by all of this 16 ga talk, I took a 1950 Savage 311 to the range today to pattern as a candidate for a hunt. I liked the idea of a retro gun, my Dad hunted a 16 ga double, as did a grand old gent down the street from me as a kid. And it is a delight to carry. At 26" tubes on its diminutive frame, (Jim Watson, I suspect sized to the gauge) it weighs a good deal less than my 870, and it is just as short as the 21" pump gun and shorter than bamaboy's 24" Moss 835 by a good bit.

However, my hopes were not high, as the old gun is choked IC/M. But hey, I thought maybe it would surprise me with modern ammo. It did not. At 30 yds, with the modified tube, patterns w/ several varieties of shells were just too thin for me to consider using on a tom past 25 yds, Which would be very sporting, but not lead to as many gobblers in the truck. In truth, the modified barrel threw a modified pattern.....slightly right to point of aim I might add. Best performer was Remington Express Long Range, 1-1/8 oz of #6. The price point 1oz #6 from two makers were basically rabbit loads. Which is probably what this old gun was intended (and quail).

It was a treat to handle and shoot. No telling how long it had been since the old gun had been fired. But a turkey gun it is not. But I probably already knew that.
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Old March 10, 2018, 10:08 AM   #17
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If it’s 7lbs (or more) it ain’t size appropriate to gauge. The American sixteens were slapped on a 12 gauge frame unlike the Europeans.


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Old March 10, 2018, 12:10 PM   #18
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OK

Well, I can say it's lighter than the 870. It is slimmer than a comparative 311 in 12 gauge, due to smaller diameter tubes I reckon.

Haven't ever been to Europe. I've got a Toyota pickup though.
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Old March 10, 2018, 03:23 PM   #19
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My 16 gauge Fultons weighed 7-1/4lbs and the 16 Wingmaster was a bit more. I agree that the tubes being smaller give the gun a better feel but the American Arms 16 gauge o/u at 6-1/4 lbs was what a 16 should be for an upland gun.


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Old March 11, 2018, 08:10 AM   #20
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Ok pete, I was being a bit of a smart apple there. Yes, I've read about the delightful Euro doubles, but I do not own one, and I don't know if I've ever swung one. Due to the cost involved, I doubt I ever will. I was in a shop in central PA a few years ago, you had to buzz in, like a private club. They opened up, (I was with my brother inlaw, a serious claybird guy, they knew him) and the place had doubles worth more than my truck(s), combined.

I had to search "American Arms" and did not come up with much. My actual knowledge of shotguns, especially doubles, is pretty limited. A shotgun for me has been a pump since my teen years, mostly to hammer turkeys.Seems like I read that one reason the svelte doubles are so common across the Atlantic, is the loads is/were lighter.

I reread the OP, and agree that a 12 ga is the way to go for the question posed.
I am not a fan of the 3-1/2 in guns, and believe for deer and turkey the 3" shell is plenty. Heck the 2-3/4 short mags do fine in most guns. The 1100 has a world of fans. It and its relative, the 11-87, have diminished in popularity a bit suffering to the popularity of the high dollar inertia guns, but the line is still well thought of. The 1100's are common here in the used market for reasonable prices. A cleanup and new seals and I bet most anyone would run fine.
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Old March 11, 2018, 10:07 AM   #21
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The old British game gun standard was that the gun should weigh 100 times the shot charge. A gun made to shoot the standard 1 oz 16 ga load would therefore weigh 6 1/4 pounds. But then the Brits don't go in for stuff like the 16 ga, that is more popular on the Continent. A common British load is a 1 1/16 oz 12 gauge, for which a Best Gun would weigh 6 lb 10 oz.

My old 12 ga Verney Carron is pretty delightful. It weighs 6 lb 6 oz. which is in the Game Gun ballpark, even a bit light. It would not be much fun for more than the 4 shots or so on a CAS stage. It was WWII Occupation loot. I figure a German took it away from a Frenchman and an American took it away from the German. I bought it from the American's widow. Armies love gun control.
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Old March 11, 2018, 11:36 AM   #22
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Frame size

The 16 ga. model 12 is not built on a 12 ga. frame. Frame is either unique or it's the 20 ga. frame.
I have only handled one, do not own one yet.

The better American guns in 16 gauge are not built on 12 gauge frames AFAIK. Most I have handled feel like a wand vs. their 12 ga. brethern.

Really depends on the gun. I continue to keep my eye open for a nice 16 ga. Then will be the search for a MEC machine and hulls.
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Old March 27, 2018, 07:21 PM   #23
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I have a Mossberg Pump 12g and an Ithaca 37 Ultralight in 16g. To produce equivalent patterns and density at a given range, the recoil is much more than any of my 12g shotguns. Sure, some of that is weight. But Light and Ultra (or Extra) Light target loads in 12g are just a joy to shoot.

If I had a 16g I liked for Deer and Turkey, I would go with that. If you want a new shotgun, sure, go 12g.
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Old March 27, 2018, 08:37 PM   #24
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Gads, how did a discussion about deer and turkey warrant dragging in the old 16 gauge. Again.
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Old March 28, 2018, 09:42 AM   #25
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The OP has a 16g.
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