Canton OH Police CCW Holder Encounter - Page 6

drcook · August 25, 2011, 10:39 PM

I watched the news story tonite. The station used is as their lead in story, right off the bat. The police chief in Canton was asked different questions, and in my opinion came across as a doofus. It was apparent (well at least to me) that they were covering it up, condoning his actions, or the chief is simply a doofus and needs to lose his job also.

shortwave · August 26, 2011, 12:49 AM

I don't think he came across as a doofus.

He just more or less thumbed his nose at the questions on TV.

IMO, this boogus interview was more insulting to the publics intelligence and embarrassing to the City of Canton than anything else.

asking Chief of Harless's past abusive conduct...

News Lady:

Quote:

Why didn't you know this was going on?

Chief:

Quote:

I don't understand the question.

Never did answer that question.

I hope channel5 news turns that interview footage over to ORfCC so it can go national as well. Stay tuned guys/gals, bet it won't be but a few days.

This so-called interview was nothing more than so the Canton PD can come back at a later date claiming " nothing was held back, the Chief of Police even gave an interview on TV".

IMO, just setting the stage for more poltical BS to come....where's the puke icon when ya need it.

I hope this crap continues so either the Ohio Attorney Gen. or the FBI take notice of this case.

drcook · August 26, 2011, 01:24 AM

I think someone probably sent an email to the FBI with a link to the news story

Hitthespot · August 26, 2011, 08:18 AM

I hope more than one person has contacted the FBI.

From the FBI web site. When to contact the FBI...........

"■Corrupt activities in state, local, or federal governments or in law enforcement; "

I hope everyone out there who is as outraged as I am is sending an email to the FBI.

Bartholomew Roberts · August 26, 2011, 09:43 AM

I feel fairly comfortable in predicting that Harless gets fired. For one, Harless committed the gravest of sins in a bureaucracy, he made his bosses worry that maybe their jobs might be on the line as well. I mean, did you see the awkward no-answer interview the Chief was forced to give? At that point, you're gone. The only question is how to get rid of you in as neat and tidy a fashion as possible, so that you don't take others with you.

Second, how would he work as a police officer in Canton or any other place? Which police department is going to say "Any time this officer gets a complaint, we are going to see those 3 videos from the plaintiff's lawyer; but let's hire him anway." Every single arrest he makes, the defense lawyer is going to be looking for an excuse to bring in these videos. Where could you put him where he wouldn't be a liability?

shortwave · August 26, 2011, 11:03 AM

Bartholomew Roberts,

My thoughts on the whole situation mirrors yours.

But I must also add that the way the Chief responded to the questions asked him by the news lady, casts even more doubt on the Canton PD then it did good. As did Canton City Council Pres. Schulman's response a while back.

In other words, the leaders of Canton have, IMO, exhibited P-Poor damage control in a situation they knew was bad from the onset. Starting clear back to the previously discussed, but can't be forgotten, 'deal' the PA offered the the ccw holder.

It's just gotten worse and snowballed from there. Like someone posted earlier, 'this whole thing is like a train wreck', and I'll add happening in slow motion.

I'm still trying to figure out the true reason for this televised so-called interview between the chief and news lady. And Trust me there is a reason...

....it was not to get the citizens questions answered,
they weren't...
...it was not to put the public at ease to assure them this same thing wouldn't happen to them in Canton,
that didn't happen...
...it was not to explain to the public the reason's the city leaders have taken the steps they have in this case,
that didn't happen....
....it was not to get a direct update from the chief of police on where the case stands,
that didn't happen...
...I can say that I hope it wasn't setup to booster PR for the PD,
THAT SURELY DIDN'T HAPPEN.

The only reason I can think that this interview took place, and remember the chief had to agree to this interview, was no more than to later come back and be able to say to the public how cooperative the Canton PD Dept. has been throughout this whole investigation by even giving TV interviews, of which nothing was found out.

In short, the response's that have been made to the public by the few city leaders that have made them, makes the public think more towards the way they already do....a cover-up from the top down.

Very, Very Embarrassing for the Canton officials and PD.

Ditto_95 · August 26, 2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

I'm still trying to figure out the true reason for this televised so-called interview between the chief and news lady. And Trust me there is a reason...

Possibly to discourage further exercising of our second ammendment rights?

As in: Don't let this happen to you

maestro pistolero · August 26, 2011, 11:51 AM

The city is in a real pickle. If they drop the charges they admit guilt. If they don't drop them it is seen as a vindictive prosecution. It's time to cut bait in my opinion: fire Harless, drop the charges, and eat their peas.

shortwave · August 26, 2011, 12:26 PM

^^^Agree maestro^^^

Before the Feds do move in with a full-out investigation.

Which should happen anyway.

But I surmise that if the opinions of the rest of the Canton leadership on the right to cc is the same as their Council Pres. Schulman's, ego's may get in the way as far as how Ohio gun law will be enforced in Canton.

If gov't leaders do not agree with a particular law, they still have the obligation to see that the law as written is enforced according to the way it should be.

Prejudice was clearly shown in this case from the start as to the way the law is and the way the law was handled. The head turning by upper management, when a gov't employee, in this case Harless, is breaking the law while calling himself enforcing the law, is in fact against the law.

Proving that Harless's superiors knew of his ongoing actions and covering up or not re-acting much earlier, via some of these dashcam vids., may not be that hard to do.
Its just getting someone from the Fed. level to deem the whole case worthy of an investigation.

armoredman · August 26, 2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

The instructors showing these vids. will end their presentation by saying " if you're dumb enough to employ these pee poor tactics during a stop, do NOT be stupid enough to be working with this Department, leave the room now, and save all of us the trouble of firing you and paying off the lawsuits.".

THAT would be the way a good Academy instructor would put it.

C0untZer0 · August 26, 2011, 11:39 PM

Could it be that if they get a conviction it lessens the odds of a succesfull lawsuit against the city by William Bartlett?

Maybe they're just playing the odds here.

shortwave · August 27, 2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

THAT would be the way a good Academy instructor would put it.

Your right armoredman, but as with everything, there's always one that comes along from time to time that makes it through the academy and gets out on the street and for the life of his/her peers, they can't figure out how this person ever made it.

I'm sure in your LE career you've seen a few of the type.

I once witnessed the son of a Cols., Ohio political figure that went through Cols. academy. He was a nice kid but was just not cut out for police work. Physically or mentally. It was not a secret how he made it through.

They started him out in what is referred to as the 'bottoms', an area of the west side of Cols. that is one of the rougher areas of the city most rookies start out at. To make a long story short, THEY ATE HIM ALIVE.

His dad spent more time at headquarters than the son did trying to save son's job but it got to the point where nobody would partner up with him as he was a liability on a call rather than an asset.

It was really kind of a sad situation as you could tell the kids heart wasn't into being an LEO but he was doing it to satify his dads wants/ego.

The kids Sgt. finally had a heart-to-heart with him and the outcome of that talk was the kid got into another line of work.

Anyway, this kids dad, instead of thanking this Sgt. for taking the time to talk to his son, tried his best to degrade the Sgt. either career wise or personally every chance he got.

After several months of the sarcastic comments it all came to a head in a not so polite way at a downtown restaurant/bar that a group of us were at and the dad came over to our table and started on Sarge.
Since I wasn't LEO and dad couldn't hurt me in my position, it felt really good to tell this guy what most of the LEO's were reluctant to do so for fear of this dads political clout. Which included that he ought to be thanking the Sgt. for taking the time to talk to his son cause somebody would had surely killed him by now...and it might not had been a BG.

On the Harless scene, one has to wonder why his Sgt. didn't know of Harless's actions. Hard to believe that Harless threatened to kill this many people on film and nobody seems to know there was a problem. Especially since the Canton PD is not all that big.

By the way, armoredman, THANK YOU for your services.

JustThisGuy · August 27, 2011, 10:26 AM

All great posts. To Harless, it's time to get yourself a job at the biggest multi-acre mall you can find and get yourself a new handle.

Sorry, I believe that Gecko45 is already taken.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 27, 2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustThisGuy

Sorry, I believe that Gecko45 is already taken.

Gecko45 may be uber tactical and a bit over the top, but even he always came across as a "consumate professional," not a hit man with a badge. I never saw anything from Gecko45 suggesting he wanted to just kill customers in his mall for littering, for example.

shortwave · August 27, 2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

To Harless, its time to get yourself a job at the biggest multi-acre mall you can find...

ULTRA BAD ADVICE!

We certainly don't need another mall ninja security person with a bad attitude against our right to cc in the State of Ohio.

You want him, you take him!

...

...but me thinks it may be time for Harless to take a life-long vacation away from any job that combines authority and weapons, Period.

armoredman · August 27, 2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

I'm sure in your LE career you've seen a few of the type.

Thank you very much, shortwave, but I am just a Corrections Sgt, not a street cop.

We do work the same crowd.

And yes, I have seen many who I wondered how the heck they made it through even out Academy, including one individual who finally got fired after being found low crawling across an open yard, making machinegun noises, claiming he was having a WWII flashback, (he was in his 30s.). On the other hand, the inmates were terrified of him...

If Harless were to come to work for us, he would have to work max custody lockdown, then he would just get thrown on and darted. Put him on a yard, and you have "major disturbance" writ large. Probably with major pieces of him being found "detached".
No, with his major lack of "people skills", he has only two possible job openings, if he skips being an inmate, and that would be either a night watchman for a construction site, or receptionist for the IRS.

shortwave · August 27, 2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

...or receptionist for the IRS

Now thats funny!

His new code name could be 'Peggy'...

"Hi! My name Peggy.
You pay taxes or I come shoot you 10 times. Then go home go to sleep".

Mr. James · August 27, 2011, 03:00 PM

Thanks, armoredman and shortwave,

Those are the first laughs generated by this awful thread. Harless is one disturbed individual. I hope for the people of Canton, the city of Canton, and law enforcement everywhere that Harless gets gone in a hurry.

shortwave · August 27, 2011, 04:22 PM

Well Mr. James, I'm afraid Canton will be the topic of many jokes around Ohio in the LE community for awhile.

One joke thats going around is that all Canton LEO's are going to be issued Brass Knuckles in a bill passed by Canton City Council Pres. Schulman. The BK's are only to be used on citizens caught legally cc'ing.

Another is that the TV show 'Cops' is going to feature a show on the similarities of police tactics in Canton and Russia.

Those are just a couple of the many I've heard from different LEO's.

I also heard a FTO for a dept. I won't mention the dept., told a rookie to "forget everything he saw if he watched the Harless training films on how to conduct a stop".

The rookie didn't know what the FTO was talking about and started asking around the precinct. When it got back to the FTO's Luitenant, the FTO was told to knock the Harless comments off.

Oh yea, another is if you pull someone over and they've giving you trouble, instead of threatening them, just tell them you're going to 'Harless them'.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 27, 2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortwave

Oh yea, another is if you pull someone over and they've giving you trouble, instead of threatening them, just tell them you're going to 'Harless them'.

"Oh, please, Officer -- could I choose waterboarding instead?"

shortwave · August 27, 2011, 10:20 PM

^^

^^

On a more serious note:

Want to thank the Mods. for the patience you guys have shown in this thread. Including the last couple of posts.

Just a way of blowing off some steam in a situation that infuriates many.

Thanks again!

JustThisGuy · August 28, 2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

"Gecko45 may be uber tactical and a bit over the top, but even he always came across as a "consumate professional," not a hit man with a badge. I never saw anything from Gecko45 suggesting he wanted to just kill customers in his mall for littering, for example."

My apologies to Gecko45 for the insulting and unwarranted comparison to Ofc. Harless.

And please, please don't get a job with the IRS!!!!!

ltc444 · September 2, 2011, 08:16 PM

It was my intent when I started this thread to
1. Find out what happened.
2. Press local officials to conduct a proper investigaion.
3. Remove a threat to the public from a place of authroity.
4. Insure that the citzen recieve a fair trial.
5. Insure equal protection under the 14th admendment by getting criminal charges brought against the Officer involved.

Could some locals update us on the status of the case?

shortwave · September 3, 2011, 10:19 AM

...and Thank You for starting this thread Itc444.

Although I live in Ohio, I'm about 80-90miles from Canton. A friend of mine lives kinda on the Southwest side of Canton(not far from Canton City Council Pres. Schulman) but unfortunately he will not be back in Canton for awhile as he is somewhere down on the coast helping with the aftermath of 'Irene'.

In other-words, I haven't found out any updates other than the City of Canton is going ahead with the charges/hearing on the ccw holder on 10/16(I think).

Having said that and being a little familiar with how these things are sometimes handled, it would not surprise me to hear that an 'out-of-court' settlement has been struck by the city and the ccw holder anytime before the hearing. Would also speculate that if a deal is struck, the details of the settlement will more than likely have to be agreed upon by the ccw holder to be kept confidential.

I can almost gaurantee those efforts are ongoing.

Other than that, I have no further updates. Hopefully someone closer than I has something substantial. If not, I guess we all just have to wait.

Again, VERY IMPORTANT:

In the mean-time, continued calls to the media, Canton PD and officials should continue by everyone in the gun community as this affects us all.

drcook · September 3, 2011, 09:40 PM

Harless' disciplinary hearing was postponed because he is unable/incompetent to take part in his own defense. That was supposed to be on the 2nd.

The trial for Bartlett is supposed to be on the 7th. Of course Harless is not going to show up or he will be crucified on the witness stand. Especially if he is made out to be a liar as far as faking his illness etc etc.

It is going to be interesting what happens on the 7th now the star witness of Canton is medically unfit (or so he and the union says) to even testify in his own behalf.

August 26, 2011, 11:03 AM	#131
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Bartholomew Roberts, My thoughts on the whole situation mirrors yours. But I must also add that the way the Chief responded to the questions asked him by the news lady, casts even more doubt on the Canton PD then it did good. As did Canton City Council Pres. Schulman's response a while back. In other words, the leaders of Canton have, IMO, exhibited P-Poor damage control in a situation they knew was bad from the onset. Starting clear back to the previously discussed, but can't be forgotten, 'deal' the PA offered the the ccw holder. It's just gotten worse and snowballed from there. Like someone posted earlier, 'this whole thing is like a train wreck', and I'll add happening in slow motion. I'm still trying to figure out the true reason for this televised so-called interview between the chief and news lady. And Trust me there is a reason... ....it was not to get the citizens questions answered, they weren't... ...it was not to put the public at ease to assure them this same thing wouldn't happen to them in Canton, that didn't happen... ...it was not to explain to the public the reason's the city leaders have taken the steps they have in this case, that didn't happen.... ....it was not to get a direct update from the chief of police on where the case stands, that didn't happen... ...I can say that I hope it wasn't setup to booster PR for the PD, THAT SURELY DIDN'T HAPPEN. The only reason I can think that this interview took place, and remember the chief had to agree to this interview, was no more than to later come back and be able to say to the public how cooperative the Canton PD Dept. has been throughout this whole investigation by even giving TV interviews, of which nothing was found out. In short, the response's that have been made to the public by the few city leaders that have made them, makes the public think more towards the way they already do....a cover-up from the top down. Very, Very Embarrassing for the Canton officials and PD. Last edited by shortwave; August 26, 2011 at 11:20 AM.

August 27, 2011, 10:26 AM	#138
JustThisGuy Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Posts: 311	All great posts. To Harless, it's time to get yourself a job at the biggest multi-acre mall you can find and get yourself a new handle. Sorry, I believe that Gecko45 is already taken. __________________ JustThisGuy Mediocrity dominates over excellence in all things... except excellence.

August 27, 2011, 03:00 PM	#143
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	Thanks, armoredman and shortwave, Those are the first laughs generated by this awful thread. Harless is one disturbed individual. I hope for the people of Canton, the city of Canton, and law enforcement everywhere that Harless gets gone in a hurry. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

August 27, 2011, 04:22 PM	#144
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Well Mr. James, I'm afraid Canton will be the topic of many jokes around Ohio in the LE community for awhile. One joke thats going around is that all Canton LEO's are going to be issued Brass Knuckles in a bill passed by Canton City Council Pres. Schulman. The BK's are only to be used on citizens caught legally cc'ing. Another is that the TV show 'Cops' is going to feature a show on the similarities of police tactics in Canton and Russia. Those are just a couple of the many I've heard from different LEO's. I also heard a FTO for a dept. I won't mention the dept., told a rookie to "forget everything he saw if he watched the Harless training films on how to conduct a stop". The rookie didn't know what the FTO was talking about and started asking around the precinct. When it got back to the FTO's Luitenant, the FTO was told to knock the Harless comments off. Oh yea, another is if you pull someone over and they've giving you trouble, instead of threatening them, just tell them you're going to 'Harless them'. Last edited by shortwave; August 27, 2011 at 04:29 PM.

August 27, 2011, 10:20 PM	#146
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	^^^^ On a more serious note: Want to thank the Mods. for the patience you guys have shown in this thread. Including the last couple of posts. Just a way of blowing off some steam in a situation that infuriates many. Thanks again! Last edited by shortwave; August 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM.

August 25, 2011, 10:39 PM	#126
drcook Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 285	I watched the news story tonite. The station used is as their lead in story, right off the bat. The police chief in Canton was asked different questions, and in my opinion came across as a doofus. It was apparent (well at least to me) that they were covering it up, condoning his actions, or the chief is simply a doofus and needs to lose his job also.

August 26, 2011, 01:24 AM	#128
drcook Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 285	I think someone probably sent an email to the FBI with a link to the news story

August 26, 2011, 08:18 AM	#129
Hitthespot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 227	I hope more than one person has contacted the FBI. From the FBI web site. When to contact the FBI........... "■Corrupt activities in state, local, or federal governments or in law enforcement; " I hope everyone out there who is as outraged as I am is sending an email to the FBI.

August 26, 2011, 09:43 AM	#130
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I feel fairly comfortable in predicting that Harless gets fired. For one, Harless committed the gravest of sins in a bureaucracy, he made his bosses worry that maybe their jobs might be on the line as well. I mean, did you see the awkward no-answer interview the Chief was forced to give? At that point, you're gone. The only question is how to get rid of you in as neat and tidy a fashion as possible, so that you don't take others with you. Second, how would he work as a police officer in Canton or any other place? Which police department is going to say "Any time this officer gets a complaint, we are going to see those 3 videos from the plaintiff's lawyer; but let's hire him anway." Every single arrest he makes, the defense lawyer is going to be looking for an excuse to bring in these videos. Where could you put him where he wouldn't be a liability?

August 26, 2011, 11:51 AM	#133
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	The city is in a real pickle. If they drop the charges they admit guilt. If they don't drop them it is seen as a vindictive prosecution. It's time to cut bait in my opinion: fire Harless, drop the charges, and eat their peas.

August 26, 2011, 12:26 PM	#134
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	^^^Agree maestro^^^ Before the Feds do move in with a full-out investigation. Which should happen anyway. But I surmise that if the opinions of the rest of the Canton leadership on the right to cc is the same as their Council Pres. Schulman's, ego's may get in the way as far as how Ohio gun law will be enforced in Canton. If gov't leaders do not agree with a particular law, they still have the obligation to see that the law as written is enforced according to the way it should be. Prejudice was clearly shown in this case from the start as to the way the law is and the way the law was handled. The head turning by upper management, when a gov't employee, in this case Harless, is breaking the law while calling himself enforcing the law, is in fact against the law. Proving that Harless's superiors knew of his ongoing actions and covering up or not re-acting much earlier, via some of these dashcam vids., may not be that hard to do. Its just getting someone from the Fed. level to deem the whole case worthy of an investigation.

August 26, 2011, 11:39 PM	#136
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Could it be that if they get a conviction it lessens the odds of a succesfull lawsuit against the city by William Bartlett? Maybe they're just playing the odds here.

September 2, 2011, 08:16 PM	#148
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	It was my intent when I started this thread to 1. Find out what happened. 2. Press local officials to conduct a proper investigaion. 3. Remove a threat to the public from a place of authroity. 4. Insure that the citzen recieve a fair trial. 5. Insure equal protection under the 14th admendment by getting criminal charges brought against the Officer involved. Could some locals update us on the status of the case?

September 3, 2011, 10:19 AM	#149
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	...and Thank You for starting this thread Itc444. Although I live in Ohio, I'm about 80-90miles from Canton. A friend of mine lives kinda on the Southwest side of Canton(not far from Canton City Council Pres. Schulman) but unfortunately he will not be back in Canton for awhile as he is somewhere down on the coast helping with the aftermath of 'Irene'. In other-words, I haven't found out any updates other than the City of Canton is going ahead with the charges/hearing on the ccw holder on 10/16(I think). Having said that and being a little familiar with how these things are sometimes handled, it would not surprise me to hear that an 'out-of-court' settlement has been struck by the city and the ccw holder anytime before the hearing. Would also speculate that if a deal is struck, the details of the settlement will more than likely have to be agreed upon by the ccw holder to be kept confidential. I can almost gaurantee those efforts are ongoing. Other than that, I have no further updates. Hopefully someone closer than I has something substantial. If not, I guess we all just have to wait. Again, VERY IMPORTANT: In the mean-time, continued calls to the media, Canton PD and officials should continue by everyone in the gun community as this affects us all.

September 3, 2011, 09:40 PM	#150
drcook Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 285	Harless' disciplinary hearing was postponed because he is unable/incompetent to take part in his own defense. That was supposed to be on the 2nd. The trial for Bartlett is supposed to be on the 7th. Of course Harless is not going to show up or he will be crucified on the witness stand. Especially if he is made out to be a liar as far as faking his illness etc etc. It is going to be interesting what happens on the 7th now the star witness of Canton is medically unfit (or so he and the union says) to even testify in his own behalf.