W. Virginia Governors Invite

10-96 · January 29, 2020, 11:00 AM

This morning on the news I saw where the WV Governor issued an open invite for Virginia folks (counties) to switch states. I realize such an occurrence wouldn't be likely, but it's still an amusing proposal to me.
What exactly would be the process for re-drawing state lines without both states explicit consent? I'm sure VA wouldn't be very accommodating to such an endeavor.

BarryLee · January 29, 2020, 12:49 PM

Obviously it won't happen, but if any area merged it would make more sense for Northern Virginia to merge with D.C. and leave the rest of the State alone.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 29, 2020, 01:27 PM

Washington, DC, is not a state. I don't think it's possible -- even on a theoretical basis -- for a portion of any state to become part of Washington, DC. Geopolitical areas switching from one state to another, however, does seem to be at least theoretically possible. Several years ago there was talk of some town or county in Vermont jumping ship to New Hampshire. I don't remember any details, but I thought it was a curious notion, since the town or country didn't physically abut New Hampshire.

Famas · January 29, 2020, 01:37 PM

It's an amusing proposal to say the least....one state's governor invites the counties of the neighboring states to join them. It's new...and a good way to give the proverbial stick-in-the-eye.....but isn't there a constitutional clause which specifically forbids states or parts of states from secession?

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend in Illinois, about how Chicago politics dominates the entire state. I was wondering....if it is illegal to want to break away from an entity - what if the entity cast a vote to expel? In other words, the state of Illinois tells Chicago to GTFO...we don't want you anymore?

BobCat45 · January 29, 2020, 02:50 PM

There have been rumblings for years about Chicago and the rest of Illinois going separate directions. Here https://www.newsweek.com/separate-ch...linois-1396380 is a link to a Newsweek story about it.

Is the Second Amendment stance of West Virginia so much stronger than that of Virginia before this latest election that Second Amendment supporters would gain ground by leaving VA for WV? Honest question.

PolarFBear · January 29, 2020, 07:16 PM

Interesting how West Virginia even became a state. Seems there was legal secession. Precedent was set. Maybe that time is again at hand. Heard Northern california wanted to split form the Southern portion, and that was almost sixty years ago.

Geezerbiker · January 29, 2020, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarFBear

Interesting how West Virginia even became a state. Seems there was legal secession. Precedent was set. Maybe that time is again at hand. Heard Northern california wanted to split form the Southern portion, and that was almost sixty years ago.

The plan was for southern Oregon and Northern California to join together to form the state of Jefferson. It was a nice idea but not very likely to come about. It's more likely that parts of California would fall off into the ocean first...

Tony

dfwkid · January 29, 2020, 09:05 PM

It worked in 1862 so it might work again.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 29, 2020, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Famas

It's an amusing proposal to say the least....one state's governor invites the counties of the neighboring states to join them. It's new...and a good way to give the proverbial stick-in-the-eye.....but isn't there a constitutional clause which specifically forbids states or parts of states from secession?

You are conflating two separate issues. The issue of secession from the United States is not the same as the issue of a part of one existing state splitting off to join another existing state.

[Edit to add] The Constitution addresses the states in Article 4.

Section 1 says each state shall honor the acts of the other states. (Nothing here about secession or realignment.)

Section 2 says the Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. (Nothing here about secession or realignment.)

Section 3 says new States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress. (This section may apply, although a Philadelphia lawyer might argue that, since no NEW state is being formed, this section would not apply. Even if it does apply, it doesn't prohibit a realignment, it only spell out the hoops to be jumped through.)

Section 4 guarantees each state a republican form of government. (Nothing here about secession or realignment.)

None of the amendments to the Constitution addresses anything relating to the realignment of political subdivisions within a state to another state.

Colorado Redneck · January 29, 2020, 11:54 PM

A few years ago in Colorado, after the law restricting magazine capacity was passed, several counties wanted to secede. Here is a quote ABC news about that.

Quote:

Eleven rural Colorado counties are threatening to secede and have put a 51st state initiative on their November 5 ballots, claiming that the government has no respect for their rural lifestyles."

Evidently the state legislature would have to approve the secession and then the US legislature would have approve. The article links to a piece in a newspaper in one of the counties.

GreeleyTribune.com
https://www.greeleytribune.com/news/...-still-linger/

**Aguila Blanca** · January 30, 2020, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Redneck

A few years ago in Colorado, after the law restricting magazine capacity was passed, several counties wanted to secede. Here is a quote ABC news about that.

Quote:

Eleven rural Colorado counties are threatening to secede and have put a 51st state initiative on their November 5 ballots, claiming that the government has no respect for their rural lifestyles."

Evidently the state legislature would have to approve the secession and then the US legislature would have approve. The article links to a piece in a newspaper in one of the counties.

This is a different situation. The Colorado proposal would have created a new state. The West Virginia proposal would NOT create a new state, it would only transfer certain pre-existing counties from Virginia to West Virginia.

Don P · January 30, 2020, 09:04 AM

Pandora's box in a nut shell. Voter registration changing district lines as far as representatives in Congress for both states.Me thinks there is a better chance of snow in hell before it happens

Ben Dover · January 30, 2020, 10:29 AM

Several years ago, a number of counties in western Nebraska wanted to become part of Wyoming.

Unfortunately, that idea never came to fruition.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 30, 2020, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don P

Pandora's box in a nut shell. Voter registration changing district lines as far as representatives in Congress for both states.Me thinks there is a better chance of snow in hell before it happens

From a practical perspective, I agree wholeheartedly that it's exceedingly unlikely it would/could ever happen. That's a different question than whether or not the legal system has provision for allowing it to happen.

zukiphile · January 30, 2020, 11:17 AM

A pandora's box? How bad could the changes be?

Ohio has 88 counties. Approximately 87 of them would like to give Cuyahoga county to whoever would take us.

I had a relative who started a war with Michigan over what became Toledo. Ohio gained Toledo, making it a war neither side won.

I believe NPR ran a piece on this with a speaker indicating that the document by which VA got its western border by allowing counties to leave didn't describe a closed process. The delivery didn't seem tongue-in-cheek.

10-96 · January 30, 2020, 12:52 PM

I guess a person would have to know which counties, and their populations, to even speculate on how a change could effect changes in voting districts, electoral college votes, and numbers of added and deleted Representatives? For VA to let Conservative counties go would be a historical shot in the foot, but on the other hand, it could "ditch" some Conservatives and more solidify their Liberal footprint. I know, there's tons of other considerations, and for them 2A is probably low on the priority list, but I'm currently away from home on TDY and have little else to wonder about.

std7mag · January 30, 2020, 01:40 PM

Ahhhh, but imagine the ruckus it would cause in the Virginia capital building if several cities or counties did vote to merge with West Virginia.

West Virginia is formalizing their state constitution to allow such mergers.

JERRYS. · January 30, 2020, 04:18 PM

when Northern Virginia floated this idea over 15 years ago the rest of the state was against it because they saw all those tax dollars leaving. today they are kicking themselves in the ass.

Famas · January 30, 2020, 04:25 PM

How would such a move proceed? Would elected county leaders vote on a council, or would the residents of the county put it to a vote, and either way it goes, the county officials would ratify it?

**44 AMP** · January 31, 2020, 02:31 AM

Quote:

This morning on the news I saw where the WV Governor issued an open invite for Virginia folks (counties) to switch states.

Did the WV Governor actually, specifically say VA counties are welcome to join WV state? Or was it more of a "all y'all" would be welcome here", meaning the PEOPLE would be welcome to move to WV??

More than a bit of difference there.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 31, 2020, 03:22 AM

Looks like both: https://www.christianheadlines.com/c...-virginia.html

Related: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/game-c...pro-gun-state/

January 29, 2020, 11:00 AM	#1
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	W. Virginia Governors Invite This morning on the news I saw where the WV Governor issued an open invite for Virginia folks (counties) to switch states. I realize such an occurrence wouldn't be likely, but it's still an amusing proposal to me. What exactly would be the process for re-drawing state lines without both states explicit consent? I'm sure VA wouldn't be very accommodating to such an endeavor. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

January 29, 2020, 12:49 PM	#2
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Obviously it won't happen, but if any area merged it would make more sense for Northern Virginia to merge with D.C. and leave the rest of the State alone. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 29, 2020, 01:27 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Washington, DC, is not a state. I don't think it's possible -- even on a theoretical basis -- for a portion of any state to become part of Washington, DC. Geopolitical areas switching from one state to another, however, does seem to be at least theoretically possible. Several years ago there was talk of some town or county in Vermont jumping ship to New Hampshire. I don't remember any details, but I thought it was a curious notion, since the town or country didn't physically abut New Hampshire. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

January 30, 2020, 09:04 AM	#12
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Pandora's box in a nut shell. Voter registration changing district lines as far as representatives in Congress for both states.Me thinks there is a better chance of snow in hell before it happens __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 30, 2020, 10:29 AM	#13
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Several years ago, a number of counties in western Nebraska wanted to become part of Wyoming. Unfortunately, that idea never came to fruition. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

January 29, 2020, 01:37 PM	#4
Famas Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: French, currently living in US Posts: 162	It's an amusing proposal to say the least....one state's governor invites the counties of the neighboring states to join them. It's new...and a good way to give the proverbial stick-in-the-eye.....but isn't there a constitutional clause which specifically forbids states or parts of states from secession? Reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend in Illinois, about how Chicago politics dominates the entire state. I was wondering....if it is illegal to want to break away from an entity - what if the entity cast a vote to expel? In other words, the state of Illinois tells Chicago to GTFO...we don't want you anymore?

January 29, 2020, 02:50 PM	#5
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	There have been rumblings for years about Chicago and the rest of Illinois going separate directions. Here https://www.newsweek.com/separate-ch...linois-1396380 is a link to a Newsweek story about it. Is the Second Amendment stance of West Virginia so much stronger than that of Virginia before this latest election that Second Amendment supporters would gain ground by leaving VA for WV? Honest question.

January 29, 2020, 07:16 PM	#6
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	Interesting how West Virginia even became a state. Seems there was legal secession. Precedent was set. Maybe that time is again at hand. Heard Northern california wanted to split form the Southern portion, and that was almost sixty years ago.

January 29, 2020, 09:05 PM	#8
dfwkid Member Join Date: September 29, 2017 Location: Like the name says: DFW Posts: 26	It worked in 1862 so it might work again.

January 30, 2020, 11:17 AM	#15
zukiphile Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 4,457	A pandora's box? How bad could the changes be? Ohio has 88 counties. Approximately 87 of them would like to give Cuyahoga county to whoever would take us. I had a relative who started a war with Michigan over what became Toledo. Ohio gained Toledo, making it a war neither side won. I believe NPR ran a piece on this with a speaker indicating that the document by which VA got its western border by allowing counties to leave didn't describe a closed process. The delivery didn't seem tongue-in-cheek. __________________ http://www.npboards.com/index.php

January 30, 2020, 12:52 PM	#16
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	I guess a person would have to know which counties, and their populations, to even speculate on how a change could effect changes in voting districts, electoral college votes, and numbers of added and deleted Representatives? For VA to let Conservative counties go would be a historical shot in the foot, but on the other hand, it could "ditch" some Conservatives and more solidify their Liberal footprint. I know, there's tons of other considerations, and for them 2A is probably low on the priority list, but I'm currently away from home on TDY and have little else to wonder about. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

January 30, 2020, 01:40 PM	#17
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Ahhhh, but imagine the ruckus it would cause in the Virginia capital building if several cities or counties did vote to merge with West Virginia. West Virginia is formalizing their state constitution to allow such mergers. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

January 30, 2020, 04:18 PM	#18
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	when Northern Virginia floated this idea over 15 years ago the rest of the state was against it because they saw all those tax dollars leaving. today they are kicking themselves in the ass.

January 30, 2020, 04:25 PM	#19
Famas Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: French, currently living in US Posts: 162	How would such a move proceed? Would elected county leaders vote on a council, or would the residents of the county put it to a vote, and either way it goes, the county officials would ratify it?

January 31, 2020, 03:22 AM	#21
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Looks like both: https://www.christianheadlines.com/c...-virginia.html Related: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/game-c...pro-gun-state/ __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic