RG4895 Surplus Powder

farmall · July 29, 2009, 12:02 PM

Anyone using this? Wideners has it for $109/8#. I'm told it's actually pull down IMR4895, but I don't trust my source very much.
The only data they give is on the jug.....44gn with a 147gn FMJ bullet in .308
I was wanting to load it in "06 to use in my Garand also, but have no data.
I think I can safely arrive at a suitable charge weight, so not too concerned there.

Just wondering if anyone has used this powder, and what their results were?

Andy

snuffy · July 29, 2009, 12:58 PM

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=57041

Take a look at that link, those guys know their surplus powders. Sounds like it's pull-down IMR 4895.

Oh, I forgot to say, I bought some 4895 from Jeff Bartlett @ gibrass.com last year. It was pull-down, supposed to be the IMR variety. It works well using IMR data, I use it in .223, .308 and 30-06. Oops and 45-70!

http://www.gibrass.com/

**Unclenick** · July 29, 2009, 01:58 PM

In QuickLOAD that load recommendation substituting canister grade IMR 4895 and using a tight military case like the IMI, it comes out about right. It reaches the middle the starting load pressure range if seated to 2.800" COL. Add in a military primer (which is magnum equivalent) and it will raise the result to around 10% below the peak pressure. Still a pretty full load.

So, I'd say that load data puts the comparison to IMR 4895 pretty darn close for either .308 or .30-06. Just use starting loads and work up, watching for pressure signs. Also, keep an eye on the brand of brass you are using. If you go to a lighter, more capacious case, like Winchester's .308 case, you'll find you need another grain and a half to two grains of powder to get to the same pressure level with a 147 grain ball bullet that you had in military brass.

The last .30-06 M72 match ammo loaded by Lake City used their cases, their military primers, and their 173 grain boattail bullet over 46.5 grains of IMR 4895. You can substitute the Sierra 175 grain MatchKing for their bullet, seating it to 3.330"-3.340" COL, and Remington cases for their cases, CCI #34 primers for their primers, then use that same 46.5 grain load and get better results. It's a mild load intended to be compatible with aging Springfields and Garands, and is a good place to start. If you feel uncertain about the powder, knock it down a couple of grains, but it should be nowhere near maximum as it is. Maximum should be nearer 50 grains.

P.S., call Wideners and ask if you are right about what it is?

farmall · July 29, 2009, 02:46 PM

Thanks guys, I feel better now!

I called Wideners..........WOW. And I thought I was an incompetent customer service rep!

I emailed them and that's where I got the .308 load data.
Think I'll get a few friends to go in on this and split shipping!

ANDY

hodaka · July 29, 2009, 06:34 PM

I started a post about it a few weeks ago. I bought a jug. I have loaded up some .308, 30-06 and .223. I am getting velocities (at least for the 30 cal's) that are essentially the same as my last batch of IMR powder. I did not chronograph the .223's but the accuracy was about the same as my last load of IMR. I think this stuff is a great deal.

BTW- I started with 46 gr. with LC brass and a 168 gr. Nosler bullet. I did not go any higher because that load was as accurate as I could measure without a scope. That was for my Garand.

Farmritch · August 30, 2009, 01:53 PM

Is it smaller grain than IMR?
I have a hard time getting IMR to meter in my dillon 550 w/dillon powder measure
How does it meter?
Thanks

Farmritch

Dave P · August 30, 2009, 02:28 PM

I am quite sure the Jeff Bartlett powder is Russian. Nice price, but very bulky and slower than IMR4064. When I fill up a 308 case, topped with a 168, I think I was only getting about 2500fps.

I use it for 3006 these days.

**Unclenick** · August 30, 2009, 02:47 PM

Farmritch,

I hate to suggest you spending a lot of money, but if you want to meter stick powder really well (within 0.2 grains), the Quick Measure is the only one I have that does it consistently. It has a metering system that can't cut the grains. They make an adapter for it that will let you use it on the Dillon presses. Other than that, you need an electronic dispenser.

That said, even the Federal .308 match ammo I've pulled down has a spread of about 0.4 grains in its stick powder over 20 rounds. The LC M72 match ammo I pulled had more like 0.8 grains extreme spread in its IMR4895 powder over 20 rounds. Nobody meters stick powder perfectly by volume. Hatcher's notebook includes mention of his working up National Match ammunition one year and finding a fine grain powder the Frankford Arsenal loading equipment could meter about twice as consistently as stick powder, but that the stick powder ammunition was consistently more accurate despite its greater charge variance. He attributes this to the fact it ignites more easily owing to the greater space between the coarser grains for the flame front to move through. So, consistent metering or not, the bottom line is still, how does the ammo shoot?

July 29, 2009, 12:02 PM	#1
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	RG4895 Surplus Powder Anyone using this? Wideners has it for $109/8#. I'm told it's actually pull down IMR4895, but I don't trust my source very much. The only data they give is on the jug.....44gn with a 147gn FMJ bullet in .308 I was wanting to load it in "06 to use in my Garand also, but have no data. I think I can safely arrive at a suitable charge weight, so not too concerned there. Just wondering if anyone has used this powder, and what their results were? Andy

July 29, 2009, 12:58 PM	#2
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=57041 Take a look at that link, those guys know their surplus powders. Sounds like it's pull-down IMR 4895. Oh, I forgot to say, I bought some 4895 from Jeff Bartlett @ gibrass.com last year. It was pull-down, supposed to be the IMR variety. It works well using IMR data, I use it in .223, .308 and 30-06. Oops and 45-70! http://www.gibrass.com/ __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

July 29, 2009, 06:34 PM	#5
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I started a post about it a few weeks ago. I bought a jug. I have loaded up some .308, 30-06 and .223. I am getting velocities (at least for the 30 cal's) that are essentially the same as my last batch of IMR powder. I did not chronograph the .223's but the accuracy was about the same as my last load of IMR. I think this stuff is a great deal. BTW- I started with 46 gr. with LC brass and a 168 gr. Nosler bullet. I did not go any higher because that load was as accurate as I could measure without a scope. That was for my Garand. Last edited by hodaka; July 29, 2009 at 06:43 PM.

August 30, 2009, 02:28 PM	#7
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	I am quite sure the Jeff Bartlett powder is Russian. Nice price, but very bulky and slower than IMR4064. When I fill up a 308 case, topped with a 168, I think I was only getting about 2500fps. I use it for 3006 these days. __________________ I think this country is screwed.

August 30, 2009, 02:47 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Farmritch, I hate to suggest you spending a lot of money, but if you want to meter stick powder really well (within 0.2 grains), the Quick Measure is the only one I have that does it consistently. It has a metering system that can't cut the grains. They make an adapter for it that will let you use it on the Dillon presses. Other than that, you need an electronic dispenser. That said, even the Federal .308 match ammo I've pulled down has a spread of about 0.4 grains in its stick powder over 20 rounds. The LC M72 match ammo I pulled had more like 0.8 grains extreme spread in its IMR4895 powder over 20 rounds. Nobody meters stick powder perfectly by volume. Hatcher's notebook includes mention of his working up National Match ammunition one year and finding a fine grain powder the Frankford Arsenal loading equipment could meter about twice as consistently as stick powder, but that the stick powder ammunition was consistently more accurate despite its greater charge variance. He attributes this to the fact it ignites more easily owing to the greater space between the coarser grains for the flame front to move through. So, consistent metering or not, the bottom line is still, how does the ammo shoot? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 29, 2009, 01:58 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	In QuickLOAD that load recommendation substituting canister grade IMR 4895 and using a tight military case like the IMI, it comes out about right. It reaches the middle the starting load pressure range if seated to 2.800" COL. Add in a military primer (which is magnum equivalent) and it will raise the result to around 10% below the peak pressure. Still a pretty full load. So, I'd say that load data puts the comparison to IMR 4895 pretty darn close for either .308 or .30-06. Just use starting loads and work up, watching for pressure signs. Also, keep an eye on the brand of brass you are using. If you go to a lighter, more capacious case, like Winchester's .308 case, you'll find you need another grain and a half to two grains of powder to get to the same pressure level with a 147 grain ball bullet that you had in military brass. The last .30-06 M72 match ammo loaded by Lake City used their cases, their military primers, and their 173 grain boattail bullet over 46.5 grains of IMR 4895. You can substitute the Sierra 175 grain MatchKing for their bullet, seating it to 3.330"-3.340" COL, and Remington cases for their cases, CCI #34 primers for their primers, then use that same 46.5 grain load and get better results. It's a mild load intended to be compatible with aging Springfields and Garands, and is a good place to start. If you feel uncertain about the powder, knock it down a couple of grains, but it should be nowhere near maximum as it is. Maximum should be nearer 50 grains. P.S., call Wideners and ask if you are right about what it is? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 29, 2009, 02:46 PM	#4
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Thanks guys, I feel better now! I called Wideners..........WOW. And I thought I was an incompetent customer service rep! I emailed them and that's where I got the .308 load data. Think I'll get a few friends to go in on this and split shipping! ANDY

August 30, 2009, 01:53 PM	#6
Farmritch Junior Member Join Date: December 3, 2006 Location: Osceola IN Posts: 9	Is it smaller grain than IMR? I have a hard time getting IMR to meter in my dillon 550 w/dillon powder measure How does it meter? Thanks Farmritch