38Super: which platform and why? - Page 2

**44 AMP** · May 21, 2025, 06:28 PM

My Father had a Colt Govt model .38 Super in the early 70s, which I got to use, provided I supplied my own ammo, which I did by reloading his fired brass (he didn't reload).

I forget the load I used back then, Unique, almost certainly but no longer remember how much. I do remember loading Hornady 115gr JHP bullets. The gun fed fine, and accuracy was on a par with any standard Colt Govt model of the era (pre series 70).

Not as accurate as a tuned guns, it was dead stock, and shot well enough to be useable.

In a time before the 9mm performance got jacked up, and before "wondernines" the Super made good sense for some things. Today, less so, I think.

I would go with a 1911A1 pattern gun in .38 Super these days, though I certainly wouldn't pass on a SIG P220 or a Browning BDA at a fair price.

I've had a BDA 45 since 80, and have had zero issues with the gun.

Yes, the slide is "stamped" but its a heavy gauge steel stamping, not something light and flimsy. It is to "stampings" a bit like Ruger's frames and receivers are to "cast". Good quality, more than enough to do the job, and not at all weak or flimsy.

The early Sigs/BDA breech block is fitted into the slide, so recoil force isn't against the roll pin alone, that pin just retains the breech in the slide, vertically. Sig does say that if you remove the breechblock assembly you should replace the pins when you reinstall it.

jetinteriorguy · May 22, 2025, 07:09 AM

I look at pistols as self defense tools. So my criteria is pretty simple as far as accuracy. If I can empty a pistol as fast as I can shoot and keep all rounds in a 4” circle at ten yards it’s all I require. I never shoot from a rest, I shoot all my revolvers DA, and I develop my loads to perform to this criteria. I develop all my loads to shoot to point of aim while shooting offhand because developing loads from a rest won’t be the same, I also make any sight adjustments shooting offhand for the same reason. Now, it’s not that I’ve always gone by this criteria, as a younger man with good eyes and a much steadier hand I loved shooting at 100-150 yds with my 6” Model 57, and was relatively good at it using paper plates as a target. But those days are long gone.

stagpanther · May 22, 2025, 04:11 PM

Quote:

I look at pistols as self defense tools. So my criteria is pretty simple as far as accuracy. If I can empty a pistol as fast as I can shoot and keep all rounds in a 4” circle at ten yards it’s all I require. I never shoot from a rest, I shoot all my revolvers DA, and I develop my loads to perform to this criteria. I develop all my loads to shoot to point of aim while shooting offhand because developing loads from a rest won’t be the same, I also make any sight adjustments shooting offhand for the same reason. Now, it’s not that I’ve always gone by this criteria, as a younger man with good eyes and a much steadier hand I loved shooting at 100-150 yds with my 6” Model 57, and was relatively good at it using paper plates as a target. But those days are long gone.

More or less the way I see things too--except in my old age my vision has gotten blurry--which is why I prefer rifles.

After shooting some lackluster groups with my 38 super government--I remember now why I relegated it to safe queen--it's my little 9 x 25 dillon glock I built that can easily send 9mm bullets at 1,700+ fps. Been a long time since I fired it, so made a few cartridges to reacquaint.

rock185 · May 25, 2025, 02:22 AM

A 1911 type pistol would be/is my preference, and I still have a couple. Since the early '70s, I've owned and loaded for the Supers. The Super can be loaded to some decent ballistics, e.g., 124/125 grain bullets @ 1450+ FPS, 147s @ 1250+ fps, etc. For this primary reason, I prefer the steel frame guns. The Super will generally feed reliably in 1911 type pistols with the traditional Colt type unramped barrels. Some ammunition, with wider hollow points, may not function well in some Colt Supers. Colt Supers, at least in recent years, have pretty good case head support, even though they still utilize unramped barrels. I have both types, but prefer the integrally ramped barrels, both for reliability with any appropriate bullet profile, and superior case head support. And parts availability for 1911 type pistols is excellent.

As has been mentioned, the SIG P220 in .38 Super has become collectible, especially high condition examples. My P220s have been chambered in 9mm and .45 ACP. They are fine high quality pistols. But due to the 220's alloy frame, I've not sought out a .38 Super example to purchase..

hammie · May 25, 2025, 11:12 AM

It's fun to read about all the options and opinions, but the original poster lives in California. If he buys from a dealer, his new or used choices are limited to what is listed on the California approved handgun list. (Although I believe private sales between individuals are not subject to that limitation.) I just checked the list. His options are limited to a few Armscor/Rock Island Armory 1911 models, one Kimber 1911 model, and a couple of Springfield Armory 1911 models. That's it! Surprisingly, Colt was not on the list. The Springfield models would have to be used (or new old stock), because from their website, it appears that Springfield is no longer chambering their 1911's for 38 Super.

If it were me, I would try to find a Springfield Armory 1911 in good condition. They had Wilson, ramped barrels. At least, mine does and it works flawlessly. The Sig will be collectable and rare. I didn't know they were ever made. And the Tokarev conversion, gives me bad vibes.

bamaranger · May 25, 2025, 06:04 PM

I too have wanted a Super for many years, and never did acquire one. At the time the 9mm was largely despised as a SD cartridge (especially in a 1911), there was no .357 SIG , .40 SW or 10mm Auto. If one wanted more velocity in an auto pistol, the Super was the answer.

A cartridge junky, the Super appealed as it was not the norm, as well as its history with LE (howsoever brief). Mine would have to be in the 1911 platform as well, headspaced in the modern manner.

When RIA started selling their 1911's in the Super I was once again tempted. By that time however, the 10mm Auto was well established, was trendy enough to satisfy my oddball cartridge addiction, and was a lot more gun than the Super. Were I wanting in the Super market (?

cheap, a RIA would be the way I would go.

May 21, 2025, 06:28 PM	#26
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,444	My Father had a Colt Govt model .38 Super in the early 70s, which I got to use, provided I supplied my own ammo, which I did by reloading his fired brass (he didn't reload). I forget the load I used back then, Unique, almost certainly but no longer remember how much. I do remember loading Hornady 115gr JHP bullets. The gun fed fine, and accuracy was on a par with any standard Colt Govt model of the era (pre series 70). Not as accurate as a tuned guns, it was dead stock, and shot well enough to be useable. In a time before the 9mm performance got jacked up, and before "wondernines" the Super made good sense for some things. Today, less so, I think. I would go with a 1911A1 pattern gun in .38 Super these days, though I certainly wouldn't pass on a SIG P220 or a Browning BDA at a fair price. I've had a BDA 45 since 80, and have had zero issues with the gun. Yes, the slide is "stamped" but its a heavy gauge steel stamping, not something light and flimsy. It is to "stampings" a bit like Ruger's frames and receivers are to "cast". Good quality, more than enough to do the job, and not at all weak or flimsy. The early Sigs/BDA breech block is fitted into the slide, so recoil force isn't against the roll pin alone, that pin just retains the breech in the slide, vertically. Sig does say that if you remove the breechblock assembly you should replace the pins when you reinstall it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 25, 2025, 02:22 AM	#29
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,119	A 1911 type pistol would be/is my preference, and I still have a couple. Since the early '70s, I've owned and loaded for the Supers. The Super can be loaded to some decent ballistics, e.g., 124/125 grain bullets @ 1450+ FPS, 147s @ 1250+ fps, etc. For this primary reason, I prefer the steel frame guns. The Super will generally feed reliably in 1911 type pistols with the traditional Colt type unramped barrels. Some ammunition, with wider hollow points, may not function well in some Colt Supers. Colt Supers, at least in recent years, have pretty good case head support, even though they still utilize unramped barrels. I have both types, but prefer the integrally ramped barrels, both for reliability with any appropriate bullet profile, and superior case head support. And parts availability for 1911 type pistols is excellent. As has been mentioned, the SIG P220 in .38 Super has become collectible, especially high condition examples. My P220s have been chambered in 9mm and .45 ACP. They are fine high quality pistols. But due to the 220's alloy frame, I've not sought out a .38 Super example to purchase.. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

May 25, 2025, 11:12 AM	#30
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 979	It's fun to read about all the options and opinions, but the original poster lives in California. If he buys from a dealer, his new or used choices are limited to what is listed on the California approved handgun list. (Although I believe private sales between individuals are not subject to that limitation.) I just checked the list. His options are limited to a few Armscor/Rock Island Armory 1911 models, one Kimber 1911 model, and a couple of Springfield Armory 1911 models. That's it! Surprisingly, Colt was not on the list. The Springfield models would have to be used (or new old stock), because from their website, it appears that Springfield is no longer chambering their 1911's for 38 Super. If it were me, I would try to find a Springfield Armory 1911 in good condition. They had Wilson, ramped barrels. At least, mine does and it works flawlessly. The Sig will be collectable and rare. I didn't know they were ever made. And the Tokarev conversion, gives me bad vibes. Last edited by hammie; May 25, 2025 at 11:22 AM.

May 25, 2025, 06:04 PM	#31
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,788	Super .38 I too have wanted a Super for many years, and never did acquire one. At the time the 9mm was largely despised as a SD cartridge (especially in a 1911), there was no .357 SIG , .40 SW or 10mm Auto. If one wanted more velocity in an auto pistol, the Super was the answer. A cartridge junky, the Super appealed as it was not the norm, as well as its history with LE (howsoever brief). Mine would have to be in the 1911 platform as well, headspaced in the modern manner. When RIA started selling their 1911's in the Super I was once again tempted. By that time however, the 10mm Auto was well established, was trendy enough to satisfy my oddball cartridge addiction, and was a lot more gun than the Super. Were I wanting in the Super market (? cheap, a RIA would be the way I would go.

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May 22, 2025, 07:09 AM	#27
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,465	I look at pistols as self defense tools. So my criteria is pretty simple as far as accuracy. If I can empty a pistol as fast as I can shoot and keep all rounds in a 4” circle at ten yards it’s all I require. I never shoot from a rest, I shoot all my revolvers DA, and I develop my loads to perform to this criteria. I develop all my loads to shoot to point of aim while shooting offhand because developing loads from a rest won’t be the same, I also make any sight adjustments shooting offhand for the same reason. Now, it’s not that I’ve always gone by this criteria, as a younger man with good eyes and a much steadier hand I loved shooting at 100-150 yds with my 6” Model 57, and was relatively good at it using paper plates as a target. But those days are long gone.