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Old January 1, 2021, 12:11 AM   #1
KingofRockstar
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why a stock is so critical for accuracy on powder burning firearms?

why a stock and point of contact is so critical on powder burning firearms when me and neightboor friends can easily plink on mailboxes with airguns and bb revolvers at 50 yards. i also have a 80lb pistol crossbow and have no probs hitting man sized papers @ 25 yard with that thing. mind you none of these pistols have shoulder stocks and handguard like air rifles.

them i found this quote on the description of this video

"Obviously, it doesn't increase the performances of your gun, considering your Glock isn't changed in any way. It will still shoot the same. It just gives you a more "stable" platform. Which makes sense for a real Glock, maybe not as much for the airsoft version."

i put over 100k bbs/pellets downrange through years, and i will tell i can easily outshoot most youtube gun channel shooters incluing famous ones like hickok45, lucas botkin, military arms channel guy, eric from iv8888, 22plinkster, etc. i have many friends who are officers and soldiers with much less trigger time, yet they have no problem shooting "minute of man" @ 50 yard or shooting dao airguns. i'm good at skill of shooting while moving drills and has no probs connecting shots on ipsc targets @ 20 yard with my bb gun while moving on every direction

i can and saw videos shooting better groups with umarex glock bb gun either bowback or dao @ 20 yard than folks roni kits or pistol caliber carbines. why people can't shoot real guns just as well? i heard anecdotes of soldiers and cops shooting the ground @ 5 yards this never happens with any airgun or airsoft. why? fundamentals are the same

why are these pistol pdw/carbine kits being all this hot take nowadays?
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Old January 1, 2021, 07:49 AM   #2
Richard b
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If you need to ask hopefully someone can explain it in terms that you understand, Not I though. To help you I would recommend you first get some experience with gun powder operated guns.

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Old January 1, 2021, 08:32 AM   #3
JohnKSa
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It's not critical for accuracy. Bullseye shooters fire one-handed at 50 yards and hit their targets.

There are things that are the same between airguns and firearms and things that are different.

I think if you could get a chance to shoot some centerfire pistols, it would be a fun and enlightening experience for you.
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Old January 1, 2021, 10:59 AM   #4
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I believe the OP is underestimating the accuracy (precision) capabilities of
firearms -- at ranges far in excess of the type of airguns he discusses.

But that precision his best realized with a stable platform -- which the
rifle stock (by any other name) provides when married up w/ the shooter's
body in a three-point triangle.

And that precision can then be measured in the smallest fractions of an
inch
... a football field away.




postscript: This applies to air-powered guns no less than firearms.

Last edited by mehavey; January 1, 2021 at 11:04 AM.
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Old January 1, 2021, 12:28 PM   #5
Nathan
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Well, I’m sure you are rock solid with air guns....possibly better that all of us.

I think you will find that “ gun powder operated guns” have a completely different feel consider they use different actions, they have recoil with each shot, that recoil drives how the gun is held, how long follow up shots take and has a real effect on practical accuracy. In addition, the internal ballistics of a particular ammo have a big impact on intrinsic accuracy of the round where air guns are mechanical except pellet shape. For example, a best quality 1911 can be shot 5 shots into 2-2.5” at 50 yards. With a Ransom Rest, it does about the same. Top IPSC shooters are shooting at this level.

If you think you can beat them, pick up a rig and get out there. IDPA and IPSC shooters would love to have another competitor in the sport!


Back to the stock question, it is about points of contact. If you have a can only have one hand on the gun, it is less stable than 2. If 2 hands and a shoulder, better accuracy due to hold. If you have a front sandbag rest, even more stable....add a rear sand bag for even better support. The more points of contact and the more stability you build into the system, the better. Look at the short range benchrest guys....masters of stability and support.

Last edited by Nathan; January 1, 2021 at 12:47 PM.
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Old January 1, 2021, 12:52 PM   #6
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Some youtoobe guys may not be the greatest marksmen, but I would be pretty reluctant in claiming to easily outshoot some of them, particularly 22plinkster.
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Old January 1, 2021, 12:57 PM   #7
mikejonestkd
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Quote:
Quote:
when me and neightboor friends can easily plink on mailboxes with airguns and bb revolvers at 50 yards
wait, aren't mailboxes usually located along roads? You know, where CARS travel? Also, I am doubting that you are actually shooting your OWN mailbox, since you claim that they are 50 yards away, and only a few fortunate folks have 150' long driveways. So, you are bragging that you shoot other people property, and are aiming into traffic?

One last thing, it is a federal offense to damage a mailbox.
https://about.usps.com/news/state-re...2011_0512c.htm
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Old January 1, 2021, 01:01 PM   #8
Nathan
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It’s just words now....I mean after you dance on the other teams logo, you have to catch the balls....that’s all I’m saying.

On the other hand, he is quite possibly the next great shooter. I have met a Japanese guy in IDPA that shoots locally. He is one of the fastest, most accurate, cleanest moving shooters I’ve seen. I believe he did some kind of air soft competition in Japan, but I forget the conversation.
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Old January 1, 2021, 01:47 PM   #9
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An over whelming majority of those You Tube videos fall into the category of "cheap entertainment" for me anyhow. They are highly edited. You'll see someone shoot an old beat up Taurus .38 revolver at a gong target 300 yards away and hit it first time. That's not skill, it's editing. Ok, skill at editing. He may have shot 20 times to get that one hit, but you don't see that. Oh, the shooter will tell you he did it first shot. He will look right into the camera, and lie to you.

Didn't 22plinkster throw up his wedding ring and put a .22 bullet through the ring in mid air first shot? Maybe not him but someone like him. You believed that? I don't and I won't. Was it good entertainment? Sure was.

Now, are these You Tube warriors better shots then the average shooter? Yep, they sure are. But picking up a revolver, cold, no practice shots, no sighting shots, just load and shoot, and hitting a 6 inch gong at 300 yards first shot? Nope, it's called editing.
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Old January 1, 2021, 02:56 PM   #10
KingofRockstar
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Quote:
wait, aren't mailboxes usually located along roads? You know, where CARS travel? Also, I am doubting that you are actually shooting your OWN mailbox, since you claim that they are 50 yards away, and only a few fortunate folks have 150' long driveways. So, you are bragging that you shoot other people property, and are aiming into traffic?

One last thing, it is a federal offense to damage a mailbox.
https://about.usps.com/news/state-re...2011_0512c.htm
discarded mailboxes set on my range for plinking. it's easy to improvise and make bb gun targets made of copper, cardboards and discarded junks you find
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Old January 1, 2021, 03:17 PM   #11
ballisticxlr
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Well, it's all about scale.

Reduce your BB gun targets to the same scale as we use with powder burners and then come back and ask that question. I shoot metallic silhouette in competition. Our targets for high power rifles are from just short of 1.5 feet tall x 3 feet wide at the 500m target to around 10x12 inches at the 200m target. When we use airguns at 20-45 yards the small targets at 20 yards are the size of a postage stamp. The 45 yard targets are about 3.2 inches wide. The game is shot standing up without any: shooting jackets, special shoes, gloves, sling. If you can reliably take a bb gun and even hit those targets more than 80% of the time then you're a world class shot. Group sizes that would be acceptable would be smaller than the actual BB. I have won my class 5 times in my state and I would class myself as an average silhouette shooter at best. For me to hit 60% of the time on a metallic silhouhette course is me having a pretty good day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by someone who is aching for a reality check
i will tell i can easily outshoot most youtube gun channel shooters
How to say this politely.... I'll bet you $100 right now you couldn't even keep up hickock45 if he was hung over and had a broken hand. That man is a master class shooter in silhouette. To get there you start at >80% hits. Most of the rest of the YT personalities are not competition grade. I'll bet you a further $100 that you couldn't even beat me. I'll even pay for your entry fee into a formal metallic silhouette competition so you can have a third party independently log and report.

Last edited by ballisticxlr; January 1, 2021 at 03:23 PM.
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Old January 2, 2021, 09:45 AM   #12
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Have you ever shot a ‘real’ gun?
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Old January 2, 2021, 07:44 PM   #13
DMK
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Quote:
Now, are these You Tube warriors better shots then the average shooter? Yep, they sure are. But picking up a revolver, cold, no practice shots, no sighting shots, just load and shoot, and hitting a 6 inch gong at 300 yards first shot? Nope, it's called editing.
Don't forget that these guys are literally getting paid to shoot free ammo.

With enough practice at the same targets, on the same range any of us could likely shoot like these guys. Like Rob Leatham says, "it's not complicated, just difficult". Perfect practice makes perfect performance.

I was watching one gun review the other day where the guy was saying that his (free) ammo resupply was cut back so he only was able to shoot 1000 rounds through the latest gun he was reviewing. How many of us shoot 1000 rounds the whole year (yeah I'm sure some of guys will now post and say you do, but most? no.)
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Old January 2, 2021, 09:57 PM   #14
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This makes the third time in 24 hours that a new to the page/forum person has come on one of my online haunts and asked a question that would seem obvious to anyone with any experience at all, then stated how expert they were in (the field around which the page/forum was built) .... two of the three times they went on to disparage the rational answers given, and insult the people that had sometimes spent several decades researching those answers on a practical level .... The OP hasn't been back to do the second part .... I do hope he will not complete that pattern for me.... it just seemed a terribly familiar template ....like there's some nefarious troll growing farm that just kicked into overdrive .....
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Old January 3, 2021, 04:43 AM   #15
raimius
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Hitting "minute of man" at 50yds may be enjoyable and even a challenge with airsoft guns. Some companies won't even ship a rifle that can't do 1MOA (about 1 inch at 100yds). The x-ring in some competitions is about 5in at 1,000yds.
Additional points of contact aid shooter's stability, which is essential to being able to consistently make such shots.
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Old January 3, 2021, 08:52 AM   #16
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i put over 100k bbs/pellets downrange through years, and i will tell i can easily outshoot most youtube gun channel shooters
That's a lot of shooting by anyone's standards. If someone put 100000 rounds of 9mm through their guns they would likely be a pretty experienced and renowned shot as well.
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Old January 3, 2021, 11:19 AM   #17
ballisticxlr
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This happens every time there's a panic buy or a stimulus. Jackwads that have never held a powder burner in their life decide to jump in the pool with the gators who've been there a long long time and start talking smack to the gators. The ending is predictable.
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Old January 3, 2021, 11:27 AM   #18
buck460XVR
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This thread reminds me of a line from Ron White..........
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Old January 3, 2021, 06:42 PM   #19
JohnKSa
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I think this one is done.
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