Opinions Needed?

[reubenray]

I am checking into what I can add to what I have already to protect my family in case the SHTF. I currently have three handguns (1-38 Special & 2-9MM) plus a legal 20 gauge shotgun that I modified back in the late 80's. I was leaning toward some type of AR-??, but I don't know enough about the current laws and maybe any upcoming laws concerning them. I don't want something that I risk having to pay taxes or have it taken away from me. I was then thinking of a tactical shotgun, but my wife and I both have bad shoulders, so I don't if this would work. Of course being able to get ammo plays a big part in this decision.

TIA

[Aguila Blanca]

Nobody can predict with any accuracy what new gun laws may be enacted by the new administration. Since you already have some firearms, unless you absolutely think that none of them are suitable for home defense, I would suggest that it might be prudent to hold off until we know what's going to happen. For now ... buy some ammo, if you don't already have a modest supply on hand.

[reubenray]

Thanks for the response.

I have been buying ammo when I can find it. I have over 200 rounds of 9MM with over half of it being JHP. I also have about 200 rounds of 38 special, but a most of it are reloads I have had for years or target rounds and only about 50 rounds of JHP. Finding 38 special loads are the hardest.

[4V50 Gary]

I'm not worried about confiscation in the next four years but what comes after Mr. Sunkist leaves office in 2024. When they come after the EBRs, they will want everything.

If you want a non-evil looking small caliber rifle, Ruger Mini-14 (and yes, they'll come after that). Light recoil for both you and your wife. If you want it scoped, get the Ranch Rifle (instead of the regular Mini-14 and scoping that).

"An armed populace is incompatible with a police state." - Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.

Suggest you get pellet rifles and pellet guts for indoor practice. At $1 a bullet, it's getting expensive to practice. Pellets are still cheap.

[reubenray]

Thanks for the response - what are EBR's.

Being the ammo I have did cost about a $1 each I have not done much range shooting. I actually do have a pellet rifle. I also have bolt action single shot 22 rifle and a 6.5 Carcano rifle, but very little ammo for them.

[Mal H]

"EBR" = evil black rifle or more properly Enhanced Battle Rifle, i.e., an AR type.

[rc]

My opinion is we can look to Canada for what will be banned. Take a look at their list. It includes the mini 14 and variants which were considered "sporting" guns on previous assault weapons bans. The bans have gone from specific to more broad as variants and name changes have circumvented restrictions even in California where you can still buy a compliant AR or receiver. They have gone after the M1A, M1Carbine and most semi auto detachable mag centerfire rifles. So what's left? In many cases the SKS with fixed magazine. If you have had your guns for many years and are off a "list" of gun owners, buying ammo may be prudent for what you got and just stay low key. I would not buy and AR right now. In many states handgun registration has been the law for many decades. I would suggest a non controversial Henry long ranger in 223 or Ruger American Ranch in 223/5.56 or 7.62x39 or a Henry lever action rifle in .357 to go with your 38 and can shoot the same ammo. The current Henry has both tube loading and side loading to top off on the go. If the Ruger PC9 is available it would be a good choice to go with your 9mm pistols but we don't know what's going to be targeted in the near future in terms of semi auto rifles.

We know there will be a huge fight over the AR and AK and similar. The 1994 Assault weapons ban is probably a model of least intrusive laws to come and most likely to pass congress with the least fighting but I think there is a desire for those hiding behind "immoral walls", fences, razor wire, 20,000 national guard troops etc, to go for broke under Biden who will sign off on their every whim.


Here is the Ruger PC. If you go for a 9mm rifle avoid the pistol grip models that might be seen as "evil".
https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html

Here is the Henry Big Boy, a pretty safe bet long term. A 357 rifle will up your ability to take large game when fed 357mag and still allow you to shoot 38 special ammo for self defense.
https://www.henryusa.com/caliber/357-magnum-38-spl/

[reubenray]

Thanks rc - I like the look of the Rugers.

[Scorch]

Nobody can predict with any accuracy what new gun laws may be enacted by the new administration

They have already told us they want ARs banned and a 10-shot magazine capacity limit. Once they get those, they'll want repeaters, then they'll want them all. And the Australian "buy-back" confiscation will be the model, since they were one of the poster children for the anti-gun people. But guess what? The criminal gangs in Australia said they wouldn't turn theirs in, and they haven't! Armed assault in those areas has increased because there is no chance of retribution.

[44 AMP]

I am checking into what I can add to what I have already to protect my family in case the SHTF.

I would suggest some training covering when you can legally shoot and when you cannot.

You already have basic hardware for close range use. What does a rifle get you that you don't already have?? Range is the big thing, and the farther away you are from who you shoot the more difficult it is to justify shooting them in the eyes of legal system.

Rifles for home defense are a popular topic, and the AR is a very popular rifle but there are a number of drawbacks to them at short range. There are some "work arounds" for some of the drawbacks, (such as choosing a bullet that will break up easily to reduce penetration) but there aren't any for some of the other things.

And, on top of that, there's the fact that ARs (and all semis) are at the top of the anti gun hit list.

If you want to add a rifle to your battery, by all means, do so. Everyone should have at least one.

Just think things through and be aware that there's no free lunch.

[reubenray]

How does this compare to the Ruger PC9?

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=202

Also before the ammo shortages what was the most popular caliber used for home protection and plinking with a carbine style rifle? I started checking for 9MM rifles being I had 9MM ammo already and I was able to get it every once and a while.

[Shadow9mm]

My best advice, if you are concerned about a ban, is to get something you can hunt with where you live. My guess is hunting guns will probably be the last to go if a ban is implemented. Here in Indiana you could go large revolver calibers in a lever gun, like 357 or 44 mag. Both can be run in a lever gun fairly quickly, and have more than enough power to take game or be effective in a defensive situation. with the shorter cartridges you can fit a good amount in the magazine tube.

another option would be something like an AR platform with a Kali-Key bolt as a backup to turn it into essentially a bolt action. Cali legal stuff should last for a while. you could also get it in a hunting legal caliber as a justification as well to help longevity. Here in Indiana that would probably be 350legend, or 450 bushmaster.

https://kalikey.com/

[reubenray]

My brother picked me up a Hi Point 995 9MM carbine today from someone he has done reloads for. I just need to get a red dot laser sight for it.

[shurshot]

A quality repeating .22 rifle (Marlin 60 semiautomatic, Ruger 10/22), or a Henry lever action .22 and a brick or two of ammunition. Hard to beat a good .22 rifle for all around survival / hunting applications. And buy more ammo for your existing guns, pass on the AR. That's what I would do.

[reubenray]

Originally Posted by shurshot

A quality repeating .22 rifle (Marlin 60 semiautomatic, Ruger 10/22), or a Henry lever action .22 and a brick or two of ammunition. Hard to beat a good .22 rifle for all around survival / hunting applications. And buy more ammo for your existing guns, pass on the AR. That's what I would do.

I now have three 9mm firearms - 2 handguns and the new to me 9MM carbine. I have slowly been accumulating 9MM ammo for them. I now have 300 rounds of target and 200 rounds of HP.

[Pistoler0]

If you want something that would be a bit less likely to be taken away (and I say a bit), a Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30 is similar to an AR, but in a traditional rifle stock. I think the traditional montecarlo furniture (evern more so in wood) makes it a little safer from confiscation, since the antis are fixated on the looks of the AR. They are mag fed, and legal in Comifornia! Here is a picture, doesn't it look "safe"? It looks like it could never hurt a peep! If you don't believe me, ask John "Hannibal" from the A Team, who would shoot it profusely but never kill anybody with it:



Other solutions:

although pricier than a regular AR lower, a rifle lower made for AR upper such as Fightlite SCR:
https://www.riflegear.com/p-8298-fig...w-763282862200


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or... give up the semi-auto altogether and go to some kind of straight pull AR. These I reckon would be very very difficult to legislate against, and a few examples are:
Troy's industries' straight pull (around $1100):
https://worldoftroy.com/product/troy...ht-pull-rifle/


or the straight pull Lantac Raven, which apparently is made to be legal in the UK:
https://www.lannertactical.com/strai...ven-ar15-rifle


I hope this helps, best of luck with your decision!

[Pistoler0]

(I am posting this just to be able to upload a 4th image for the post above, #16)

[winkytink]

Don't forget hearing and eye protection. Get the best ear protection you can afford (based on decibels and not price), for both you and your wife, and keep them near your nightstand gun. Firing a weapon outside can be bad enough but doing so inside an enclosed space can be debilitating and might cause permanent hearing loss. Hopefully you'll never have to use it but it's best to be prepared.

[ghbucky]

Depending on your local laws (or your ability to predict the future) there are also now pump-action AR rifles being produced.

https://worldoftroy.com/product/troy...e-optic-ready/

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by winkytink

Firing a weapon outside can be bad enough but doing so inside an enclosed space can be debilitating and might cause permanent hearing loss. Hopefully you'll never have to use it but it's best to be prepared.

Yes, I would not consider a rifle caliber firearm for self defense indoors unless I am really committed to learning sign language.

PCC better for indoors.

[reubenray]

I need to now find optics for the Hi Point 995. This is an older model and it has the ATI stock.

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by reubenray

I don't want something that I risk having to pay taxes or have it taken away from me.
[..]
I need to now find optics for the Hi Point 995. This is an older model and it has the ATI stock.

he he IF there was a ban, the Hi Point carbine would be one of the FIRST firearms they'd ban, by name.

I got one in 45, I love it.

[Pahoo]

A quality repeating .22 rifle (Marlin 60 semiautomatic, Ruger 10/22), or a Henry lever action .22 and a brick or two of ammunition. Hard to beat a good .22 rifle for all around survival / hunting applications. And buy more ammo for your existing guns, pass on the AR. That's what I would do.

shurshot, beat me to it !!!!
A standard Ruger 10/22 carbine and let your imagination run with it. Buy the highest velocity .22LR available to you. .....

Keep the faith and;
Be Safe !!!

[5whiskey]

Me personally, if I were in need of a general all purpose defense/hunting/utility rifle (aka a SHTF rifle) these days I would probably look at a lever rifle in .44mag, .45 colt, or .357mag. These are less likely to be touched by any form of gun control, and they will serve beautifully as all purpose firearms. One in .30-30 would be ok as well, but more limited in capacity.

If you don’t have a .22, you should get one. .22lr is a must have for as a utility for its varmint control and small game hunting ability. Plus ammo is still relatively cheap. Comparatively speaking.

I don’t see any AR bans actually being enacted as law anytime in the next few years. I do see the parts, accessories, and ammo being scarce out of a fear those bans come after all. And if those bans do come, better to have the next best thing already in hand. Just my $.02

[Pistoler0]

Originally Posted by 5whiskey

Me personally, if I were in need of a general all purpose defense/hunting/utility rifle (aka a SHTF rifle) these days I would probably look at a lever rifle in .44mag, .45 colt, or .357mag. These are less likely to be touched by any form of gun control, and they will serve beautifully as all purpose firearms.

Yes! Precisely because of what you just said, I was considering a lever action last year. But as I researched it, I discovered that most of them are chambered in cartridges that use blunt nose bullets like the 30-30, because pointy spitzer bullets have the risk of being set off due to recoil. And... those cartridges are expensive!! That made me decide against one.

Although Henry offers a rifle now that is magazine fed, the long ranger. It is pricey but chambered in .223, 308, 243 and 6.5C it could be a good option.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/the-long-ranger/

I personally decided to go the cheapest ammo route possible given what we are going through, and got me something in 7.62x39 which is also a good all purpose cartridge and is still CHEAP (even today). I wish the lever action would have been available in this caliber.