Becoming a better 'real world' marksman at the range

[supersport939]

Hey all -
a relative noob to pistol firing. I shot rifles a bunch in my 20's, but almost all target practice, and no scenario / real world training mindset.
I have a SS P365 (to be my EDC) and a Beretta 92x. I'm going to the range 2-3 times week, and shooting 100-150 rds. I've been reading, and talking to instructors, watching training & competition videos and whatever else I can soak up.
My hope for posting this - to get good advice on how to become a more precise and quicker shot, so I can be confident and composed if things go to he11.
Things I'm focusing on:
- Always taking at least 2 shots in every aim. I hope this gets me used to dealing with resetting after recoil. Managing recoil is another thing I'm working on
- Never shooting (aiming at) the same points on a target 2x in a row. I'm using targets with different shapes, colors, numbers on them, looking down trying to forget what's there, pick a color / number, and then come up to set and shoot at what I picked, and 2 rounds at each part.
- I already see improvement, and 2nd / 3rd rapid shots are getting more accurate, and recoil has less impact on getting set again.
- On a narrow range there is only so far I can push this, but I'm trying to push my abilities to shoot without delay, do it confidently, accurately, and under control.
- Hopefully you get the gist of where I'm going with this. Any other tips (other than going to an outdoor tactical range?) to improve on this?
TIA, and be nice....

[Aguila Blanca]

Tom Givens usually posts a link to his current Rangemaster newsletter. There's a drill in that every month. Once you get to his web site you can find all the back issues and copy or print out the various drills.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=607691

If there's a club near you that runs IDPA compettions, that's also a good way to get some practice in doing a bit more than standing in one place and shooting at one target.

[ghbucky]

If there's a club near you that runs IDPA compettions, that's also a good way to get some practice in doing a bit more than standing in one place and shooting at one target.

I can't stress enough how important this was to me. I could stand in a range booth all day long and shoot to my heart's content, but it wasn't until I put myself in the stressful situation of a competition with an RSO on my shoulder that I actually got some input into things I was doing wrong (like muzzling myself by sweeping my hand in front of the barrel when racking the slide).

I also learned things like firing from a draw and moving with a gun.

Plus it is loads of fun

[Erno86]

"You have to learn how to walk, before you can run."

[Sharkbite]

Take the money you would spend on your next gun and put it towards a class at one of the shooting schools. That will put you on the right path and give you direction on WHAT and HOW to practice.

A much better way then trying to figure it out yourself. Let the professional guide your efforts

[FireForged]

If you are interested in self defense, save your money and go to a school. Some sort of fighting pistol class that is supplemented with force on force training. What people do while playing (comp) gun games is not preparation or training for real fighting.. that's just my opinion.

[Shadow9mm]

You need to slow down and take a breath. Focus on the fundamentals. Skills take time to build. I have really been enjoying this 50 rnd training drill. I consider myself a reasonably good pistol shooter, and have made progress every time I have shot this drill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8MvKIiXC2M

also, if you can swing it take a pistol course and try to get into some competative shoots. Remember the goal is learning and making progress.

[ms6852]

A couple of things that I would recommend is to always practice with the gun you carry always. If you don't reload don't buy another gun, instead buy all the bullets you can for your edc with the money you would use for another gun because you want one.

Composure and confidence comes with practice, practice, practice and more practice. Take a class or two as has been suggested also.

The final important thing I would recommend is learn to defend your self physically as well. Either take boxing lessons, or other type of martial arts that you may like. Doing this will give you the confidence you seek and the composure you want to allow you the ability to walk away and de-escalate a situation to a lower lever where no one gets hurt. But if it does escalate to a higher lever, knowing how to defend yourself physically, you can contain the situation without getting yourself killed or even worse killing someone else. I find nowadays that many people have a false sense of security because they have a gun on their person and are willing to use it simply because they have it. Where a punch to the solar plexus or chin or a kick to the knee can just as easily keep you safe.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by supersport939

...My hope for posting this - to get good advice on how to become a more precise and quicker shot, ...

It's a little hard to make useful suggestions because I don't know how you're doing now.

Competently carrying a gun for self defense involves more than just marksmanship:

• You will want to know and understand the legal issues -- when the use of lethal force would be legally justified, when it would not be, and how to tell the difference. You will want to understand how to handle the legal aftermath of a violent encounter and how to articulate why, in a particular situation, you decided to take whatever action you did.
  
  
• You will want to know about levels of alertness and mental preparedness to take action. You will want to understand how to assess situations and make difficult decisions quickly under stress. You will want to know about the various stress induced physiological and psychological effects that you might face during and after a violent encounter.
  
  
• You will want to develop good practical proficiency with your gun. That includes practical marksmanship, i. e., being able to deploy your gun and get good hits quickly at various distances. It also includes skills such as moving and shooting, use of cover and concealment, reloading quickly, clearing malfunctions, and moving safely with a loaded gun.

Practical pistolcraft can be tough to work on given the limitations imposed by most ranges. Good, professional training can be a real help

Dry fire and some of the drills mentioned would be useful. Also, when on the square range and not able to do holster work or move, it never hurts to keep up with basic marksmanship skills -- trigger control and flash sight picture. I'll often shoot quick 2, 3 or 4 shot strings starting a low ready. I'll also do some multiple target drills by putting smaller targets (I like the 7 inch Shoot'Nc ovals) around on a standard bullseye target and shooting 1, 2 or 3 shots on each, starting at low ready.

IPSC and IDPA competition can also be helpful.

But laying a solid foundation of sound fundamentals is a good place to start.


The principles described below apply to both handguns and rifles. It's all about learning how to press the trigger to make the gun fire without moving the gun.

1. The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight (or the reticle if using a scope) as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."
   
   Now of course you shouldn't be surprised if your gun fires when you press the trigger. You expect it to fire. The point of the surprise break is not that you're surprised because the gun fires. It's that you don't know exactly when, within some time interval, the gun will fire.
   
   And the group of instructors I teach with have found the concept to be very useful in teaching beginners.
   
   
2. One wants to place his finger on the trigger in a manner that facilitates that. Usually, the best place for the finger to contact the trigger will be the middle of the portion of the finger between the first knuckle and the fingertip, and that part of the finger should be perpendicular to the direction in which the trigger moves.
   
   
   • With some triggers, e. g., heavy double action triggers with a long travel, that placement might not provide enough leverage to work the trigger smoothly. In such cases, the trigger may be placed at the first joint.
     
     
   • In either case, the trigger finger needs to be curved away from the gun sufficiently to allow it to press the trigger straight back without the trigger finger binding or applying lateral pressure to the gun. If one has to reach too far to get his finger properly on the trigger (or turn the gun to the point that the axis of the barrel is significantly misaligned with the forearm), the gun is too big. (For example, I have a short trigger reach and can't properly shoot some handguns, like N frame Smith & Wesson revolvers double action.)
   
   
3. By keeping focus on the front sight (or reticle) and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger.
   
   
4. Of course the gun will wobble a bit on the target. It is just not possible to hold the gun absolutely steady. Because you are alive, there will always be a slight movement caused by all the tiny movement associated with being alive: your heart beating; tiny muscular movements necessary to maintain your balance, etc. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target. .
   
   
5. In our teaching we avoid using the words "squeeze" or "pull" to describe the actuation of the trigger. We prefer to refer to "pressing" the trigger. The word "press" seems to better describe the process of smoothly pressing the trigger straight back, with only the trigger finger moving, to a surprise break.
   
   
6. You'll want to be able to perform the fundamentals reflexively, on demand without conscious thought. You do that by practicing them slowly to develop smoothness. Then smooth becomes fast.
   
   
   • Again, remember that practice doesn't make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
     
     
   • Practice also makes permanent. If you keep practicing doing something poorly, you will become an expert at doing it poorly.
   
   
7. Many people are uncomfortable with the idea of the gun firing "by surprise." They feel that when using the gun for practical applications, e. g., hunting or self defense, they need to be able to make the gun fire right now. But if you try to make the gun fire right now, you will almost certainly jerk the trigger thus jerking the gun off target and missing your shot. That's where the "compressed surprise break" comes in.
   
   
   • As you practice (perfectly) and develop the facility to reflexively (without conscious thought) apply a smooth, continuously increasing pressure to the trigger the time interval between beginning to press and the shot breaking gets progressively shorter until it become indistinguishable from being instantaneous. In other words, that period of uncertainty during which the shot might break, but you don't know exactly when, becomes vanishingly short. And that is the compressed surprise break.
     
     
   • Jeff Cooper explains the compressed surprise break in this video beginning at 36:04. This article by Jeff Campbell and this article by Jim Wilson might also be helpful.
     
     
   • It may help to understand the way humans learn a physical skill.
     
     
     • In learning a physical skill, we all go through a four step process:
       
       
       • unconscious incompetence, we can't do something and we don't even know how to do it;
         
         
       • conscious incompetence, we can't physically do something even though we know in our mind how to do it;
         
         
       • conscious competence, we know how to do something but can only do it right if we concentrate on doing it properly; and
         
         
       • unconscious competence, at this final stage we know how to do something and can do it reflexively (as second nature) on demand without having to think about it.
       
       
     • To get to the third stage, you need to think through the physical task consciously in order to do it perfectly. You need to start slow; one must walk before he can run. The key here is going slow so that you can perform each repetition properly and smoothly. Don't try to be fast. Try to be smooth. Now here's the kicker: slow is smooth and smooth is fast. You are trying to program your body to perform each of the components of the task properly and efficiently. As the programing takes, you get smoother; and as you get smoother you get more efficient and more sure, and therefore, faster.
       
       
     • I have in fact seen this over and over, both in the classes I've been in and with students that I've helped train. Start slow, consciously doing the physical act smoothly. You start to get smooth, and as you get smooth your pace will start to pick up. And about now, you will have reached the stage of conscious competence. You can do something properly and well as long as you think about it.
       
       
     • To go from conscious competence to the final stage, unconscious competence, is usually thought to take around 5,000 good repetitions. The good news is that dry practice will count. The bad news is that poor repetitions don't count and can set you back. You need to work at this to get good.
       
       
     • If one has reached the stage of unconscious competence as far as trigger control is concerned, he will be able to consistently execute a proper, controlled trigger press quickly and without conscious thought. Of course one needs to practice regularly and properly to maintain proficiency, but it's easier to maintain it once achieved than it was to first achieve it.
   
   
8. Once you've laid a solid foundation, here's a way to increase your rate of fire:
   
   
   • Shoot some strings of fire, say three, four or five shots, at a pace at which you can consistently shoot nice, tight groups.
     
     
   • Start shooting faster until your groups noticeably open up (say by a factor of two or three). Work at that pace for a bit.
     
     
   • Then begin to slow down again until you're shooting groups roughly the size of the slow, tight groups you started with.
     
     
   • Using a shot timer can be a big help.
     
     
   • After doing those exercises for a while, you should be shooting both your small groups and larger groups faster than before.

[dyl]

It's great to see your enthusiasm. About classes: you *could* sign up for a defensive pistol class, but what I'd actually recommend is to look for an NRA instructor, basic pistol. Not because you need the basic stuff, (although you will always be seeking to improve the fundamentals) but it would be a chance for some personal coaching. My wife and I went to an abbreviated Basic Pistol class and we arranged it so it ended up being just the two of us! That was a good opportunity for nearly 1 on 1 pistol coaching at a good price. A couple hours of solid fundamentals review in a classroom, then range time, with some laser training tools in between, all in one morning. Way more fun than any university class. I had been shooting pistols for years and I still learned some things. Your experience may differ, it is ultimately up to the quality of that particular teacher as a communicator and coach, but he had taught for the army and was still sharp albeit hard of hearing.

I agree with the fundamentals. Because all the fast tactical cool stuff requires extremely good fundamentals. When I have the time, I start and end my session with fundamentals. But in between, I do try to push things a bit, to tread the line where I sacrifice perfect clover leaf groups for more speed - because I know it goes against my nature and my background of slow fire. There are also unpopular things to practice because they don't feel good, don't look good, or are a problem at indoor ranges. Shooting weak hand only, shooting from a reload, malfunction clearing, drawing...

Don't forget dry fire, but also don't get sloppy with safety because you believe the gun to be empty.

I also believe doubling up on hearing protection accelerates building fundamentals and working against anticipation / flinch.

[supersport939]

@Frank_Ettin

As you practice (perfectly) and develop the facility to reflexively (without conscious thought) apply a smooth, continuously increasing pressure to the trigger the time interval between beginning to press and the shot breaking gets progressively shorter until it become indistinguishable from being instantaneous. In other words, that period of uncertainty during which the shot might break, but you don't know exactly when, becomes vanishingly short. And that is the compressed surprise break.

First - thanks so much for taking the time to put so much invaluable information in your response! I'm trying to be sponge of all information and this is a great description thats a montage of other things I've been learning. I never heard the "surprise break" before, but when shooting my 92 - especially in DA, is exactly what i'm trying to develop. It's hard to put all fundamentals together on every shot, but making only my trig finger moving backwards perpendicular to the target is key. Being not so jacked up on caffeine helps too!

Shoot some strings of fire, say three, four or five shots, at a pace at which you can consistently shoot nice, tight groups.

Start shooting faster until your groups noticeably open up (say by a factor of two or three). Work at that pace for a bit.

Then begin to slow down again until you're shooting groups roughly the size of the slow, tight groups you started with.

Using a shot timer can be a big help.

After doing those exercises for a while, you should be shooting both your small groups and larger groups faster than before.

I'm going to take this advice to the range with me on my next several outings and see how it progresses.

[supersport939]

@dyl

I agree with the fundamentals. Because all the fast tactical cool stuff requires extremely good fundamentals. When I have the time, I start and end my session with fundamentals. But in between, I do try to push things a bit, to tread the line where I sacrifice perfect clover leaf groups for more speed - because I know it goes against my nature and my background of slow fire. There are also unpopular things to practice because they don't feel good, don't look good, or are a problem at indoor ranges

I'm gravitating to this approach almost instinctively too. I need to show myself that I can put a round where I want it, by sticking to working all the fundamentals, and then build speed, and consistency - pushing it more and more. Thanks for taking the time to give the great advice! And yes - the enthusiasm is only building and building!

[Bartholomew Roberts]

For shooting on a typical indoor range in a populous urban area where there may be restrictions on rapid fire, working from the holster, etc.

An easy thing to practice is just watching your front sight through the entire firing cycle. Be able to track the front sight through the whole process; because this is a key to learning the fancy stuff.

Once you can do that, work until your front sight goes straight up and straight down. No rocking off to the side. Just straight up and straight down - this will tell you you have a good grip and proper trigger control.

Assuming range rules allow, practice firing the next shot as soon as the front sight drops back down on to target. Are you still tracking straight up and down on that second shot?

If your range allows multiple rapid shots, then once you can do two shots in succession straight up and down, try doing two shots as fast as you can pull the trigger with a single sight picture. This will require a solid grip more than trigger control, a grip that minimizes sympathetic squeeze.

Another huge thing is dryfire... any kind of dryfire helps and it will let you work from the holster and practice techniques you may not be able to try at your local range. The four rules still apply though. If that pistol goes “BOOM” instead of click, know where the round is going and have something that can contain it. Old tube monitors and some flatscreens are great for this - you can even do a little Hogan’s Alley slide show on the monitor.

Finally, the Laser Strike cartridges and similar products are just tremendous for getting the most out of dryfire and well worth the money.

[ghbucky]

For marksmanship fundamentals that translated well for me to IDPA and IPSC matches, take a look at the dot torture drill.

It will have you moving through slow fire, rapid fire, changing targets, single hand (with both hands), drawing and firing (if you can't do that at your range, start from low ready instead), and reloads over 50 rounds.

It is a great drill.

[MisterCrabby]

Yes, on competitive shooting!

Idpa and Uspsa each have their strong points and annoyances. shooting on the clock against better shooters will up you game quickly.

Take classes on shooting while moving and moving targets. Learning to shoot and move from cover to cover to either retreat to safety, advance tactically or get to a safer spot is essential.

Get training on clearing failures. Get fast doing them. Use snap caps randomly in your mags to give you failures. Let your friends load your gun so you don’t know if a round is chambered or not. Lots of variation that if you do with friends is kinda fun. Who can stump the chump!

Finally, get your mind right to be able do do what you have to do to defend yourself and your love ones.