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Old December 18, 2008, 06:59 AM   #26
Deegle
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Oh, and it sounds like Deegle is going to have a very Merry Christmas!!
Indeed! I'll try to post pics of my new member of the family once it is removed from the thin paper trappings in which it now resides.
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Old December 18, 2008, 07:44 AM   #27
1911rocks
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Gauge???

At this point in time I'd say the consensus is no on the pistol grip alone (I'm not talking about shoulder stock with pistol grip). Now the gauge. For years I was hardcore about 12ga or nothing. Until I did a combat shotgun course. WOW what an eye opener!!! Like my old Gunny said " It's all about steel on target kid"
My Remington 870 12ga was replaced with an 870 20ga. Lighter, better feel, very controllable, recoil light enough that I will practice like Hell hath no tomorrow. There are plenty of Buckshot loads and slugs too. Furthermore, almost everyone in the house. This last sentence is not to invite the inane children and guns discussion.
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Old December 18, 2008, 11:25 AM   #28
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Hello,
You should have him look at a Mossberg 500 Combo ---- last week I just bought one for $319 + Tax etc. -- $339 out the door. It is Moss. stock number 50579 ---it is a 20" brl.,bead front sight , 7 rd. tube{8 rd. total} and it comes with a pistol grip kit included.
This way you would have a full stock SG and could try it with a pistol grip---not very good except VERY close range.
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Old December 18, 2008, 08:10 PM   #29
nemoaz
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Furthermore, almost everyone in the house. This last sentence is not to invite the inane children and guns discussion.
Yet, it's not a sentence. Everyone in the house can shoot the 20g?

Just wondering, how does your 20g compare to a 12g with reduced recoil loads? I'm currently 20g only, but I'd like to have something my wife could handle a little easier. Even considering one of those 410 deals once I realized that a 410 3" has 5 OOO buck.
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Old December 18, 2008, 10:47 PM   #30
USMC3521
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Here are pics of my mossy 500 HD gun... It's the best of both worlds
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Old December 19, 2008, 04:25 AM   #31
miekelle
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there are a few shotguns that there are accesories for!
heres a list of shotguns

first we have the mossberg 500 this is a special mod with an awesome mag

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...ultshotgun.jpg

This is a mossberg 590A1


http://consumermaven.files.wordpress...bergm590a1.jpg

we have the 500 persuader

http://www.leesgunshop.com/images/mo...0Presuade8.jpg


Next up we have the remingtons

870 tactical


http://www.borelliconsulting.com/eva...es/rem8701.jpg

1100

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...p/shotgun2.jpg
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Old December 19, 2008, 06:54 AM   #32
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HD Shotguns

I have a Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12ga 20" barrel with a pistol grip and its design fits its function, Home Defense. The average shooter that does practice can be as effective with the pistol grip as with a full stock. I have a 12 year old grandson that is deadly with this gun at any distance with bird, buck or slugs. Practice, Practice with all guns is a must.
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Old December 19, 2008, 08:03 AM   #33
wnycollector
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Check out the mossberg maverick 88 security. It has a 20" cyl barrel and is 7+1 of 12ga good-ness Mine has ~ 1500 trouble free rounds through it for only $200. For your $500 budget you can get the shotgun and 500 rounds of fiocchi low recoil 00 buck!
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Old December 19, 2008, 08:13 AM   #34
rsh32crew
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My Charles Daly Field is around 300 bucks and would do the trick. It's semi auto, so you wouldn't even have to know how to pump it (as in the 870). By the way, that tactical 870 is bad ass.
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Old December 19, 2008, 09:59 AM   #35
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rsh32crew, While I would consider an auto for HD I will NEVER use one as my ONLY HD gun. First off the auto has to be maintained to a different level to remain nearly reliable function compared to tapping a pump on the wall to dislodge the mud from the muzzle to remain an insanely reliable shooting platform. Second aspect is again in reliability. I am just an average shooter but I have always had decent trouble shooting skills and very high level of the workin' on stuff genes in my dna. If SNAFU occurs with your gun you have less than stellar conditions to work on it and little time to conduct the fix.
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Old December 23, 2008, 04:04 AM   #36
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Pistol grip with folding stock works great IMO.
Akkar Karatay 12 GA
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Old December 23, 2008, 09:46 AM   #37
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I have 870 with pistol grip... That being said, I plan on getting a folding stock next year. I just like the idea of having an option!!!

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Old December 23, 2008, 01:19 PM   #38
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I have an H&R Pardner Pump. 12 gauge, 18 1/2", 5+1 and under $200. About 200 rounds and never a hicup. The 12 gauge pump is such a stable design, been around, like forever, that any decently made 12 gauge will function all the time. While the H&R may not be as pretty or as nicely finished as more expensive guns, it will put a bunch of little lead balls down range in a hurry.
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Old December 23, 2008, 01:52 PM   #39
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Home defense shotgun

Can't beat a Mossburg 500 or Rem 870 12 ga. with an 18" barrel. What is just as important is the load used. I am searching for a milder load that will deliver less recoil, and not accidentally hit a neighbor through a wall. I don't think 00 buckshot is necessary inside a house.

I have tried Aguila 12 ga. Mini-buckshot which is only 1 1/2" long with a dual load ((7- #4B, 4- #1B). Great load, but will not cycle reliably being that short. I think I will develop my own based on a 2 1/2" hull and use some filler. This will be able to be shot by anyone in the household without hurting their shoulder.

Any known modifications to the gun to get a shorter shell to cycle reliably?

Also consider first round less-than-lethal load, followed by the real one if needed. Might help with the wrongfull death lawsuit from the grieving family of the poor bad guy!!!
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Old December 24, 2008, 09:44 AM   #40
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so basically you're advocating shooting the perp twice,

the first one with a whimp load followed by the real McCoy, that ought to sit well with the grieving law suit game, that assuming you have the chance to make said follow up shot.
Trying to imagine what an autopsy photo of two 12 gauge hits would look like.

Last edited by Katrina Guy; December 24, 2008 at 09:46 AM. Reason: add on text
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Old December 24, 2008, 09:56 AM   #41
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Having birdshot or the like as first round isn't that great in my book. I have no neighbors close by and therefor don't care about over-penetration. If I ever have to shoot at somebody I will shoot to kill. I do however only load 5 buckshot shells in the tube and have some birdshot and slugs next to my shotgun. The Birdshot is really only for shooting snakes and practice in my house.
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Old December 24, 2008, 09:59 AM   #42
hogdogs
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If you are justified to brandish then you are justified to shoot WITH LETHAL FORCE You are justified to STOP the offender but you are never justified to intentionally inflict injury It is a weird thing huh? We americans have a right to kill but not intentionally maim...
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Old December 24, 2008, 10:11 AM   #43
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1. Go buy a 18"-20" Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 with a standard stock.

2. Buy several different brands of 00 buckshot to pattern, and some birdshot to practice with.

3. Go to the range, pattern your 00 buckshot for your HD load, and shoot the birdshot at targets for practice.

4. Clean your shotgun, and load the magazine with 00 buckshot.

That is all that you will ever need for a basic defensive shotgun, and with defensive shotguns basic is better.
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Old December 24, 2008, 10:11 AM   #44
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If I pull the trigger, I am trying to incapacitate. Birdshot won't do that unless you aim for the face. 3 X 4 buck followed by 2 X 00 buck. My 12 gauge is the only gun I keep an empty chamber, unless there is a major storm. Then there is one in the pipe.
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Old December 24, 2008, 10:38 AM   #45
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My first round is less than lethal rubber pellets. If they don't stop or run after that I will let them have #4 or 00 buck, which ever I happen to have loaded.
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Old December 24, 2008, 09:20 PM   #46
kipnita
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I have a Maverick 88 and think it is a great gun.

When it was purchased it had the pistol grip which I have since replaced with an ATI tactical stock. MUCH better control/accuracy with a full stock over the pistol grip.

Sure, the pistol grip looks cool bbbbbbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuutttttt, when your hineys on the line you're gonna wish you had a full stock on your HD shotgun!!!!!!
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Old December 24, 2008, 10:22 PM   #47
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My goodness! I can almost see the faces of the older real-deal shotgunners cringing and then smacking themselves in the forehead at all of the bad ideas heaped into this one thread.

Less than lethal loads? Are you kidding me?!
I wonder how much some of you have thought about this. Bad guy may be drugged up and quite immune to pain stimulus. Shoot him with rubber balls and he might just shrug it off and show you what the term 'lethal weapon' really means. He then pulls or uses his already at-the-ready weapon and kills you deader'ndead. What happens to your wife and kids after you are incapacitated and bleeding out on your bedroom floor? After he's done with them, he has a new shotgun for next week's adventure.
Less than lethal loads? Puh-leeze! Leave that stuff to the LEOs who have back-up ready to use a more lethal weapon or weapons in case the "less than lethal" trick doesn't work.
I know...I know... We've all seen COPS where the shotgun wielding cop shoots the bad guy with bean bags out of a 12 ga. and BG folds like a house of cards. Do you seriously think there isn't back up ready to give BG severe lead poisoning if he doesn't fold?


Shooting to "incapacitate"? Are you kidding me?!
Kiss everything you own goodbye and say hello to the poorhouse after a successful lawsuit introduces you to your new lifestyle...abject poverty. You think your gonna win a case where bad guy gets rolled into court in his wheelchair, I.V. bags and oxygen tank followed by a parade of doctors testifying to his pain and suffering and destroyed life which is the direct result of you "shooting to incapacitate"?
Don't think for a minute you won't get sued for "shooting to incapacitate".
You most certainly WILL.
Who's gonna pay for the lawyers? You.

Pistol grip only shotguns? Are you kid...oh wait! That's so obvious it doesn't need further comment.
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Old December 24, 2008, 10:35 PM   #48
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I do believe the 12 ga. shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot is the BEST HD weapon, BUT how many of you have ever fired a shotgun off in the house? Those of you who say noise and blast doesn't matter in a life and death situation.......well, it does matter if it blows your eardrums out and disorientates you.
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Old December 24, 2008, 11:54 PM   #49
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try a Silencer like in "No Country for Old Men". That thing rocks.
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Old December 25, 2008, 12:34 AM   #50
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LOL. I hadn't seen that one, but now I am interested. I am an old man, so maybe I was meant to see it.
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