Daniel Defense Worth the price?

[Huh12345]

Hi,

I am interested in the daniel defense m4 line of firearms and am wondering if it is worth the hefty price tag. It is clear that it has some significant upgrades over say, the ruger ar 15 but is it worth the much higher price?

[jglsprings]

You really need to open a beer and watch some youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...fense+worth+it

It has hours of this topic. Some rather well done.

My PSA Freedom rifle build shoots right along side my buddies Daniels Defense. I think the real test will be over time. How durable they compare to be...

[CalmerThanYou]

Yes

[Eazyeach]

Primary arms has a DD sale going on right now and I am having trouble resisting the siren call of the DDM4V11 pro. Sorry I didn't answer your question, but obviously I think they're good rifles or I wouldn't be considering paying $1544 for a damn rifle that I already have 3 of. Colt, SW , and BCM. I'm having trouble justifying another.

[Water-Man]

With a Colt ( not the Expanse Model ) and a BCM, there's not much to justify the extra money for a DD.

[turtlehead]

Not really. And you still have to replace that hideous furniture.

But you'd be happy with it. They make good rifles.

If you're not building your own have a look at BCM. A little less $ and the same cred.

[CDR_Glock]

Do a custom build yourself. You can get a better barrel and trigger for much less money.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[marine6680]

Depends... Are you looking for a high end rifle?

And by high end, I mean a rifle that has tight QC, enhanced features, maybe exceeds milspec, and generally has an excellent reputation for being well made, accurate, tough, and reliable. But will cost you a bit more...

If all you want is a solid rifle, that won't let you down, and will have all the performance you need... A mid range rifle is probably a better buy. Often, they are excellent rifles, but are a little more plain, have fewer built in features, and while reliable, may not have quite as nice in fit and finish... (as in... not as pretty)


If you want a higher end rifle...

The DD rifles around the $1500 or under price point... Those are probably good buys. For me, I feel that as you go over the $1500 price point, your return on investment decreases rapidly. I just don't feel the extra money is getting you any real substantial gain to justify the costs.

So I say, stick to under $1500... The $1500-2000 price range can be a grey zone, if you have a particular desire for certain features or other such thing... That may make it worth the extra cash to you.

Past $2000 and you are reaching into the boutique/luxury rifle category... While some, like Wilson Combat (average $3000+) are meticulous in their builds, and gear their rifles to be more precision shooters than combat carbines, which may justify the cost a bit... Others, like Noveske, are more about the name, than any real significant improvement over a similarly setup DD.


BCM and DD are both companies that I feel fit into the high end AR segment, while offering a good balance of features, quality, and price... On a significant number or most of their available models... or in the case of BCM, allowing you to customize your rifle, but buying the upper and lower separately. BCM is not as flashy as a DD rifle, but are well made, and a little less expensive, especially if you buy separate upper and lower.

The LWRC DI rifle fits into the High end category as well, but is about the only model they have that fits my criteria.


A company like LMT and Noveske, tend to run very high in their price... And LMT does have a $1500 model, it is a very basic no frills carbine... But I do think the LMT enhanced bolt and carrier is a good idea.


Now if you just want a good rifle, and a big name brand isn't as important... You have many solid options in the $700-1000 price range.

There are even a couple options under $600 that I would say are excellent buys that offer a lot of performance per dollar.

[Stats Shooter]

It really depends on what you are after. I have a position varmint rifle with 20" stainless match bull barrel. Geissele trigger and chrome bolt. It is a tack driver and 3/4 moa out to 600 yards....But it is heavy and not a "battle rifle" it is about $2000 not counting scope/rings. I have a colt H-Bar also with Geissele trigger in an A2 configuration. About $1,300 and very accurate. I have a Stag model 2 carbine with factory trigger and all the milspec junk with an aimpoint, $900 for the rifle. It had never ever had an ftf or FTE, even with steel cased and coated ammo. I can hold about 1.5 moa with the red dot and pretty much an clone of the mk18 I carried in the Navy but with a 16" rather than 14.5" barrel and of course no burst fire....

I have a position driven AR-10 Ruger SR 762, and a DI Windham .308.

Bottom line is, you can get as reliable a gun as possible for around $1000. If you want match grade bench rest type accuracy, you will probably need to spend about 1800-2000 for the rifle...But keep in mind a match or varmint rifle would be too heavy and a lot less manuverable than a good well built carbine.

So to answer your question, finally, once you get past a certain point, like $1500-$2000, you begin paying for features, fit and finish, etc. Weather you are paying too much depends upon your need. If you need a 1.5 moa gun to have fun with and plink at the range...$650 will do it.
If you want the upper end in reliability, $1000-$1300. If you want nearly bolt action accuracy in a semi automatic, mup to $2000. If you want the best in reliability, accuracy, fit and finish, ergonomics, and no upgrades necessary, the b the high end Wilson combat or BCM guns are what you want.


But remember this... With guns there is what we call the 90/10 rule. Which is that at some point, it takes about 90% more money to get a 10% improvement.

[Skadoosh]

No.

Get a BCM.

[g.willikers]

It depends on how much use it will get.
Better ones run longer.
Keep in mind that most recommendations on these forums are not necessarily indicative of serious use.
Mr. Farnam has articles on which makes and models are the least troublesome during his lengthy and intensive training sessions.
You might check there:
http://defense-training.com
As well as from other trainers who specialize in the AR, too.
Like Tiger Mckee of Shoot Rite academy.
He's actually written a book on the subject.
http://shootrite.org/book/book.html

[ed308]

Daniel Defense makes some great ARs. But the M4 wouldn't my choice due to the carbine gas system, chrome line barrel and 5.56 chamber. I prefer mid gas, melonite finished and a .223 Wylde chambered AR. I have one high end AR, a LWRC Six8. Since it's a piston AR, its the smoothest AR I own. Has feel of quality too. I'll use it for hunting. But the DI ARs I've built are my favorites when it comes to deciding which to grab for play at the range.

[Targa]

For me their isn't an AR worth that price but if their were was, the DD would certainly be one of them.

[Model12Win]

True operators rock Daniel.

[marine6680]

g.willikers

It would have been nice if you linked the articles directly... So I don't have to spend half an hour looking.

[Stats Shooter]

True operators rock Daniel

I guess some of the Devgroup guys I knew in Damneck when I was EOD were not "true " operators then, and neither was I when I deployed twice (Navy EOD) with a Mk 18 (colt) .

[Targa]

He says flippant things like that to get a response like yours.

[Stats Shooter]

He says flippant things like that to get a response like yours.

Thanks for the heads up...Won't bite again

[CalmerThanYou]

I also think part of the answer is how many AR-15's do you plan to own? I have a lot of wants on my list, so I made what I believe to be a well researched decision to purchase a DD. Afterwards I found the trigger fair at best, so I researched a top grade aftermarket trigger. I now have 1 AR-15 that I love, and can move onto the next caliber or firearm. Next up is a 308, I am in the process of doing my homework, as again I want 1 really good rifle in that caliber. Going for quality over quantity works for me.

[Tomas]

DD make excellent rifles...only worth it if you decide it is. Doesn't really matter beyond that.

You could build a rifle just as nice for a lot less, but if that is not your thing, pay for it and sleep well at night; what we think is irrelevant.

[Ibmikey]

To cut through all the BS and recommendations: yes they are a great rifle but beyond the needs of the average shooter.

[G.barnes]

DD rifles are not that expensive if you look at what you get. Not saying 1500 isn't a lot of money. If you buy a top tier lower from bcm or lmt or noveske they are 400 to 500 dollars complete. Can you get a bcm barrel for 200 dollars yes, but it's not chf. Bcm, fn, spikes tactical and many others are all in the 300+ dollar range for a chf barrel. Sure midwest industries makes a handguard for 180 instead of 280 but the alignment tabs bend if you tighten it down to tight. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in a rifle that is going to be dropped,banged, and just plain abused at times. Most other quality handguards fall in the 250 to over 300 dollar price range. The bcg. Yeah you can find good cheap ones but if you want one that is properly tested and inspected (individually not a batch of 10 out of a 500 part run it costs money. Qc people and the proper equipment cost money.) When you could buy their upper receivers by themselves they were 125 dollars same price as every other quality upper I've seen. Is a colt 6920 a good rifle? Definitely. Unless you don't want a carbine length gas system, m203 cutout on barrel (I personally won't buy a barrel with it) or drop in handguard. Most people will not shoot enough to ever be able to tell the difference between a low to too level ar. Those who do have no problem spending 1500 dollars, since after all the price of the rifle is cheap compared to what will be spent in ammo. When I say that do you shoot a few hundred rounds go home clean it lube it and inspect everything, or do you do 500 rds throw some lube on the vital areas real quick and run it for another 500 to 600 rds. Do you run your rifle to the point the barrel is so hot when your done shooting that you have to lay your rifle on a piece of cardboard in your car because the barrel can't cool down fast enough and you don't want to burn the stuff in your trunk or the inside of your rifle bag.

[Sequins]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

True operators rock Daniel.

no TRUE operator would use an XYZ...

[MagnumWill]

...wait... people still contemplate buying complete AR15s...?

[stagpanther]

...wait... people still contemplate buying complete AR15s...?

We are in a twilight zone currently where assembled rifles are actually cheaper than one you can put together by buying parts and putting it together.